Checking coils for a short

Earlier this year I bought new coils and have about 2000 miles on them.
Last week I started to have intermittent power loss at low and high rpm's
After barely making it home, I swapped out the points and condenser with an old set that I had laying around and could not get it fired up again.
I have had the carbs off twice cleaning them, no help.
I ordered a new set of points and condenser and a new regulator/rectifier and installed them today, still nothing :blush:
Using a meter set to Rx1 I tried to set the points,
I got 2 and 3 to drop off just past the "F" mark like it should but on the 1 and 4 point the needle stays spiked even with it opened
When I disconnect the green and black wires from the point to the coils I can get 1 and 4 to drop off to drop off.

I hate doing electrical stuff and can read and watch videos until I am cross eyed :S it just doesn't sink in.
If there is an easy/ fool proof way to check my coils please let me know in a language that an idiot can understand.

In the mean time I am headed down to the local Suzuki shop to see if they have the right 7mm copper core wires for my spare green Dyna coils :whistle:
Thanks,
JD

Could be a bad coil. If the battery/12v ignition + lead is grounded on one coil it is grounded on the other one too but:
Check to see if the primary wires on the coils are shorting out to the coil's mounting screws.
Also, rarely, but sometimes, .... the flat spring on the points gets askew and shorts the grounding lead to engine ground when it is not supposed to be until the points close.
You can also use your volt meter to check that by clipping the black one to ground and the other on the spring of either points one at a time.
With the ignition on, rotate the engine by hand and see if you get 12v or so when the points are open.....if yes, you don't have a primary wiring short anywhere I can think of.

How much of a hurry are you in? If you are still having trouble in a week, I might be able to road trip down to you.

In the mean time, when you are working with one set of points, put a slip of paper in the other set so they don't make contact. Then you can use ohms to set the points.

bluej58 wrote: . . . I got 2 and 3 to drop off just past the "F" mark like it should but on the 1 and 4 point the needle stays spiked even with it opened
When I disconnect the green and black wires from the point to the coils I can get 1 and 4 to drop off. . . .

Perhaps the heels of the left-hand-side points (black wire from 1/4 coil) are worn off whereby the points are failing to open.








Or perhaps the fiber insulator washers are defective or missing or improperly installed, whereby the black wire from 1/4 coil is always staying grounded even when the points are open.






Good Fortune!

Here's how the black wire is supposed to cause the 1/4 ignition coil to fire:

While the left-hand-side points are closed, the black wire grounds the 1/4 ignition coil through the closed points.

When the left-hand-side points open (the contacts separate), the black wire becomes un-grounded, which is the event that causes the coil to fire.

Same for the green wire from the 2/3 coil to the right-hand-side points.






Good Fortune!

bluej58 wrote: In the mean time I am headed down to the local Suzuki shop to see if they have the right 7mm copper core wires for my spare green Dyna coils :whistle:
Thanks,
JD

www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/OMS0/9...1&pt=N0610&ppt=C0150

Will work fine for much less than the dealership. The included GM HEI boots will fit the Dyna output towers tightly. Use small zip ties to secure the boots to the tower for insurance.

Thanks Mission, I'll check the primary wires on the coils, The Kawasaki owners manual doesn't mention using a piece of paper to break the contact on the other point like Lou mentioned and when I did it I got the points set up to release right on the "F" marks and the gaps are at 0.35mm
So I'm guessing that eliminates the flat springs grounding out right?
I will check for 12 volts at the points using your method, do I set the meter at 15 DCV?

Lou brother that is an awful generous offer,thank you! but I'll figure it out sooner or later and if you ever have the time for a road trip out my way I would much rather show you around on our nice curvy river roads.
Thanks for reminding me about the paper trick, I seem to remember something about that now.

Patton, I think that the 1 and 4 point was always open when I tried the first time and that is why the 2 and 3 point was able to drop off, the heels are brand new, and I know the new coils are hooked up right, they ran great for 2000 miles this year.
I wish I hadn't thrown the originals out right now though. :pinch:
I will recheck the green and black wires to the coils tomorrow also and make sure they are right.

Thanks for that link to the wires, we have an O Riley's in town and I almost went to check them out.
Still hope that these new coils are OK, if not I will give Z1E a call and get the proper set of wires for the Dyna's .

Here is a little more info on what has been happening with the bike;
Last season my battery was going though a lot of distilled water over the course of 9000+ miles
This year my 3 year old battery was dead, R.I.P.
So I bought a new sealed battery and have around 3000 miles on it.
I bought a new set of coils just before our trip to the Smokies and have around 2 K on them.

I have been wanting to check my regulator and rectifier for a long time but because of my inept electrical ability's I didn't. :blush:
So when this new trouble started happening I decided that it was time to just replace the 37 year old stuff with a modern regulator/ rectifier combo package that I bought through Red Line out of Chicago, it is a sweet set up that is custom made for my bike, and very simple to install.
But so far it is not the magic bullet.
I am thinking about swapping the old stuff back in and trying to figure out how to run the tests.

I have found that when installing or resetting points it helps to first unplug the wires that lead from the points to the coils. I unplug them at the bullet connectors up near the coils. This enables me to easily set the static timing by checking when continuity breaks as each set of points open. Also, be sure to accurately set the points gap prior to trying to set the timing. Once I have set the gap and timing using the "static" method I follow up with a dwell meter for the gap and a timing light for the timing, but I have found if the static adjustment has been done carefully very little or no fine tuning is needed with the dwell meter or light. Ed

bluej58 wrote: . . . I think that the 1 and 4 point was always open when I tried the first time . . . .

The points must be closed in order for the coil's primary winding to be grounded (via the black wire from the coil through the closed points to ground), which allows the coil to "charge."

Then, when the points open, the "charged" coil fires (i.e., discharges) through the secondary loop.

If the points always stay open, the coil never charges, because the coil's primary winding isn't being grounded through open points.

With a piece of paper between the contacts, the points act as if they are always open.

Good Fortune!

Tonight I charged the battery and check what it is holding and the meter says 13+ volts.
Then I turned on the ignition,rotated the engine and check the volts to the open points and both are reading just over 12 volts
I think that there is no short in the primary coil wires.

So what's next?

Not quite the answer you were looking for, but upgrading to electronic ignition is what I'd do anyway even if it was working perfectly. I had twin points on an old Triumph V8 and couldn't bin them fast enough.

I have a Dyna S set up that I am planning on using on a future project , if my existing coils are shot I may use it now.

I found some good write ups by Wire George that have to read