Making an Integrated tail light for my '78 650...

Hello all,

I'd been giving some thought to replacing the somewhat clunky stock tail light/licence plate holder on Lila with something just a little more svelt and sleek. So far, for price and looks it seems like the ZX6E tail light inverted and tucked up into the ducktail is ahead by a long shot. However, as far as I can tell, it is a brake light only unit, tho it does have two bulbs. (Or at least, I have seem then installed where people still have their original turn signals as well).

If it actually is wired for integrated turn signals then correct me, but since the ZX6 also has separate turns, then I kind of assume this is not the case.

It should be an easy enough swap to chance over to dual filament bulbs in the same housing, and re-wire it as an integrated unit, no? I realize I may have to get creative about LED colors, or go with the slightly more modern style clear housing to make it technically color legal, but I doubt very much that John Law around where I live is going to get on my case for having red turn indicators if I use an older original unit. There are plenty of cafe bikes and older models that people run without turn signals at all, so that probably isn't a consideration.

So before I go down the road of trying to sort out a workable wiring configuration and making up something like this from scratch, does anyone out there with actual knowledge and experience with wiring/electrical reckon this is possible? Electronics are my Achilles heel when it comes to repair and making things go, but I am at least capable of doing clean wiring and soldering work, and I am always happy to learn more, and get better at what I'm not great at.... Just that my understanding of advanced electrical stuff stops somewhere around 1st year physics at University...

Thanks in advance,

Jon

If you care about legal, my recollection is the FED requirement is that the rear turn signal lenses must be at least 9" (center to center) apart to be legal. So if you integrate them into the tail/brake light assembly, it's going to be close to a foot wide.

I realize there are people running illegal lights, but if you care that's the law. State requirements may vary.

The reason is actually obvious: if you are behind a vehicle and the turn signals are too close together, at night all you see is one dot blinking so it can't indicate direction.

Here is the text:





www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2007-title49-v...-vol6-sec571-108.xml

Can't argue with you there. I agree that the best defensive strategy is to have separate turn signals at a distance that makes direction obvious, and I am not ruling out find a set of turn signals as well, Our laws here in Canada aren't so different from yours, and I suspect that yes, legally, an integrated unit alone won't cut it. However, at the moment , mine have been broken off by some drunken passerby last summer in the middle of the night. So, I just don't HAVE any rear turn signals to work with.

I am having a look around on the fleabay to find something that I like, and that will just bolt up to where the old ones were, or maybe find someone with a replacement set of GPZ ones to replace the ones that got smashed. I just don't think I am willing to pay the $25/ea for repo turn signals just now. Made in ROC LED shorty style turn signals seem cheap enough, but I don't know they would suit the bike particularly well, and overall quality is a concern. In any case, thanks for the advice. I will certainly consider my overall safety, and evaluate how anything I might cobble together functions before heading out on the road with it.

Jon

You might check ebay. I have seen a ton of integrated tail light/turn signal units for sale. They might be legal in Canada (?) Some of them are LED based which saves power on the alternator loading.

Maybe get something like this?? I think it's upside down in the pics. Ninja 250 tail light & turn signals

Thanks, but I am pretty set on the the light from the ZX6E for a start. Couple of the other member here have them tucked up into the 650 ducktail, and copy too much, but they look good, and a a little better than the monstrous plate holder/tail light that comes stock.

Mainly, my question was more to do with the wiring. Assuming the bulbs are already dual filament for running/braking, do you suppose the brighter (braking filament, or in this case, LEDS...) could be wired up from the flasher on the turn signals to also flash when the turn switch is activated? It is my lack of experience with this kind of home made wiring stuff that I need help with. I have been good with replacing some of the crap 'fixes' from bikes I've come across in the past, and I don't want to make a mess of what is there.

I can't think of any reason in particular why the light can't be made to indicate both braking and turn signals, except that perhaps if both were triggered, it would double the current going through the bulb and blow it? Both run through some kind of switch, so neither should provide a short circuit for the other.... In any case, if the answer at the end is no, then so be it, I am just kind of exploring options. As I don't have turns at the moment (again they were smashed....) and I may not have the time or money to find new ones, just getting the one light would at least get me on the road, possibly with brakes and turns. At worst, I can keep running as I was last summer, without turns and the old single bulb brake light, but I think I can improve on that....

Any thoughts?

Cheers!
Jon

Jonny wrote:
I can't think of any reason in particular why the light can't be made to indicate both braking and turn signals,

That's actually complicated. I know because I have my rear turn signals wired to also be brake lights:

1) You have to "OR" connect the power line (using a power diode) from the brake light circuit and the TS flasher circuit so they won't interfere with each other.

2) The REALLY complicated part is that it's illegal to have the brake light "over ride" the turn signal. In other words, the TS needs to keep flashing when the brakes are applied, not just go solid on. On mine, there is a timer circuit that "disables" the power feed from the brake light source when the TS flasher is enabled.

Okay,

That was the bit I was curious about. What I would have to do to make it work. I will look into power diodes, and see what I can come up with. Like I said, wiring and electronics are not my strong suit, but I sometimes clever enough to make things work.

Around where I live at present, I'm not terribly concerned about the minutia of turn signals and the law. Like I said, at present I have none, and have caught no flak for it. As far as I know, you don't legally need any on older bikes, and there are heaps of bikes I've seen with turn signal deletes. This won't be a permanent arrangement, most likely, but something to get me going again, and to use something a little less clunky (and probably brighter!) than the stock brake light.

Any leads on wiring up the power diode for that arrangement would be appreciated!

Cheers!
Jon

Jonny wrote: Okay,

That was the bit I was curious about. What I would have to do to make it work. I will look into power diodes, and see what I can come up with. Like I said, wiring and electronics are not my strong suit, but I sometimes clever enough to make things work.

Around where I live at present, I'm not terribly concerned about the minutia of turn signals and the law. Like I said, at present I have none, and have caught no flak for it. As far as I know, you don't legally need any on older bikes, and there are heaps of bikes I've seen with turn signal deletes. This won't be a permanent arrangement, most likely, but something to get me going again, and to use something a little less clunky (and probably brighter!) than the stock brake light.

Any leads on wiring up the power diode for that arrangement would be appreciated!

Cheers!
Jon

I'll see if I can gin up some kind of circuit. Most of my old circuits were on my work computer when I got laid off so I'll try to make something up.

This circuit should work to allow using the rear turn signal filaments as brake lights too. In most places, if you use the rears as brake lights, you need red lenses (not amber). I painted my rear lenses with Testor's red candy color transparent model spray.

Another suggestion to help keep you legal would be to get what small amber super bright button LED lights drill a hole in the lense, or even on each side and install the small button lights as turn signals.

Thanks all for the help and advice. Thanks especially bountyhunter for the wiring diagram. I am gonna keep that and put it aside for future use should I come back across this problem in the future.

For the present, I decided to pony up and just buy some new GpZ turn signals to replace the ones that were bashed by a drunken passerby last year. The ZX6E tail light will still get tucked under the ducktail, but just as a standard type improved brake light.

We well see how that little project works out soon enough. Guess I get to stay within the limits of the law after all.

Cheers!