A Battery question for the electrically gifted :)

Gentlemen
I need a new battery for my 1327 and I find that the standard type battery has about 200 cold cranking amps. And tends to struggle turning over a big bore.
Now I have come across a brand SSB which I also saw on another thread (Lithium ion batteries)
I have 2 in mind, 1st is the same size and has a 300cca and the other is a 500cca and is 40mm longer, which isn't a problem. But comes with a 30 month warranty where the other one was only 12. Price difference was only about 20 bucks.
My question is could 500cca cause damage to the starter or any other part?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated
Thankyou Harvey

The cca is the battery reserve power- it should be fine-would check the starter draw-that will be more of an issue than cca- if the starter draw is excessive the reserve power in the battery is sufficient to cause smoked wires. Ran a stock starter on a high comp 1260 motor with no cranking issues- would definitely do a draw test to see if your cables/grounds are ok.

If you want to make sure it starts when hot, use two batteries.
Wire so they are in series to start, and in parallel to charge.

My 1394 13:1 ZX12 motor is wired that way, 24V start and 12V charge.

.

Sorry but off the top of my head I do not know what the stock starter on 77 1000 is rated at. In general starters are seeking a certain level of watts to function correctly. (watts = volts x amps). The starter does not care how it gets to this level, if there are not enough volts it will attempt to pull more amps, and if not enough amps it will attempt to pull more volts.

Have you thought of using a starter motor from a Honda? Read this:


Using a stronger Honda starter motor in a Kawasaki

Buda from the www.kzrider.com forum wrote:

Will not turn the engine over....10.25 10 1 comp 1170 cc......took starter out and ran it with a battery....the starter spins strong but starts to squeal after a second.....also the shaft has a lot of play side to side. Bad starter I’m guessing What do you guys think?
Took the starter apart.....the bushing on the drive end is cracked

MFolks Wrote:
For a stronger starter motor, read this:
Using a Honda Mitsuba SM-220 Starter in the Kz (copied from the KZ rider website)

The CB F's used 2 different starters. Look for the one marked .8kw. They also have one that is .7kw. This owner noticed a difference when he installed his. He read that you can remove the outer housing, and rotate it. this will re-align the outer power terminal, to a better location. if you don’t do this, you will need to grind some metal from the chain cover to gain clearance. Also install a heavier gauge wire to the starter , I’d recommend 6 AWG(American Wire Gauge) welding cable with the correct terminal ends to match the treaded studs for the solenoid and starter motor. Don’t forget the cable from the battery to the solenoid.

The stock KZ starter is .6kw in size

www.stockers.com/index.php?dt=HS-29 (Mitsuba SM-220)

Buda Wrote:
Thanks MFolks, Just ordered the rebuild kit before I read your post....If that doesn't work out I'll give the Honda starter a shot.

Got a the Honda starter MFolks recommended (SM 220 12 volt 0.8 KW) on ebay...hell of a difference.....Turns over like the plugs are missing....I'm sure the new battery doesn't hurt, but its a hell of a difference.

Gpz Eric Wrote:
The starter came from stockers - per a lead from Mfolks - good $139.00 mod - the one I got was marked .7, yet it has gobs of power. Trickiest part is spinning around the case to get the wire nut attachment at about 4 o'clock so it clears everything. I pulled off the front end of the new starter and almost dropped the internal bushings from the front end.

OnkelB Wrote: Very good tips, thanks.

Gpz Eric Wrote:

Honda Starter in GPz1100 (will also work in the Kz1000/1100’s)

I just finished installing a Mitsuba SM-220 starter in my GPz1100, and I have a little insight on this modification.

First, the bike I'm working on is my '82 GPz1100, with 35,900 km (about 22,000 miles) on it, and 500 miles since a top-end rebuild.

It cranked OK - but noticeably slower when hot.

After boring it out from 1090cc to 1136cc, and bumping the compression from 8.9:1 to 10.25:1 the started really labors to crank it over, especially when hot.

There's an old thread here by MFolks, with a link to where to buy a Mitsuba SM-220 (Honda) starter, so I spent the $139.00 and ordered one.

First, take off the footpeg mount, then pull off the chain cover/ shift lever linkage.

Take off the starter cover, and the two bolts that hold down the starter.

Wiggle/slide the starter back out of it's hole, and tip the back end of it up as high as you can, then the front end will come out where the chain cover sits.

Unbolt the wire by taking off the brass nut, and the starter is in your hand.

Holding the new starter & old starter side-by-side, they are dimensionally the same, but the wire connection is in exactly the wrong spot.

So carefully loosen up the two long bolts and take them off the new starter, being careful to not let either end of the starter fall off.

Wiggle the back end off, being careful as to not lose any spacers in there, and rotate it until the top is the top, and the wire sits at about the 4 O'clock position. Then rotate the front to match, and put in the bolts.

Make sure that the threaded holes for the starter cover are both on the top, because I neglected this, and had to take the bolts out and re-do it. Put it back together, and if yours is like mine, it now spins over like I forgot the spark plugs -


Zed 1015 wrote:
The earlier KZ900/1000 with kickstart has a two (2) brush starter motor and fitting the later J/GPZ (non kickstart) starter is an upgrade for these as they are four (4) brush. The .8kw Honda starter is usually a benefit on engines that have had a compression increase or big bore. All years of KZ and GPZ will take the Honda starter. The standard kz or GPZ starter is good enough though for std engines if kept in good condition.

Ed Spangler Wrote:
Intriguing!! Please forgive me for asking what may be obvious ( Im OLD.. thats my excuse) But....what year Honda starter and what year Kawi? have a '75 Z1-B 900 myself...so what year etc. Honda starter would fit mine?
Thanks.

Gpz Eric Wrote:
zed1015 is correct - the GPz starter had four brushes.
I took mine apart, and it still has plenty of brushes left, good spring pressure on them too, but the commutator isn't shiny copper anymore, it's scorched & black, and I suspect that if I take the starter over to the tool repair shop that the windings have broken down. The starter I put in has two brushes, where the stocker has four, so we'll see how long it lasts - if I get only 15 years out of it instead of 30 it'll be OK with me -

Zed 1015 Wrote:
The scorching on the commutator is common and usually caused by arcing.
A clean up with emery cloth (or if scored, a light skim on the lathe)and then lightly under cut the mica insulation between the segments should restore proper function.

Gpz Eric Wrote:
So whaddya think, do you suppose it's worthwhile to rebuild it, and put it away for down the road ? I can match up the brushes, and I've got a 6" Atlas Copco lathe in the basement - but if I throw the armature on the growler and it's been damaged by the heat I doubt I could find another one -


Zed 1015 Wrote:
Yes! it's worth doing. You have nothing to loose especially if you think it's damaged anyhow. I've salvaged loads that looked like scrap and wouldn't even turn.
If the commutator is scored then a just enough of a very light skim of the copper segments to produce a clean smooth surface for the brushes to run on then carefully cut back the mica insulation between the segments with a section of fine hacksaw blade.
Flush out the armature and body with brake cleaner then a very light smear of copper grease etc in the plain bearings on reassembly.
The windings rarely burn out under normal use and the usual cause of that is someone using jumper leads from a car battery to start the bike.

Thankyou for your help gentlemen.

I did a draw test but how do you do a starter draw test?
Sorry forgot to mention I installed a 4 brush GPZ starter a while ago as the stock one died.
I ended up buying a SSB HVT1. With a minor enlargement of the battery box, it's in.
I have my battery running long ways and just under the seat due to the rear suspension.
I spoke to their tech bloke at SSB and also the local battery dealer and both said if I
can get it in, go for it.
500cca and a 30 month warranty for $145. 2 1/2 times the cca and warranty on a std
battery for not much extra cash seemed the way to go.

Cheers Harvey

Starter draw test-inductive ammeter clamped around battery cable going to the starter solenoid then crank- was putting off replying to this as I realized not everyone has an inductive ammeter laying around. If you have access to a car auto shop most of them have a VAT 40 or 60 electrical tester- if no ammeter available would do a voltage drop test and ensure battery voltage doesn't drop below 10v or so while cranking- would also feel the b+ cable to starter while cranking and make sure it doesn't feel hot. Not sure what amps the starter should draw- but someone who knows will probably chime in-would expect your motor to draw a little more amps due to cc"s and compression.

The draw on the starter can vary widely depending on rotational speed, and load. So it's a hard thing to gauge.

Going to a larger battery won't hurt the starter as long as the starter can turn and start the engine quickly. If the starter turns it slowly, or if the bike requires a lot of sustained cranking, it won't matter what you use for a battery, the starter's life will be short.

KZ Rat wrote: If you have access to a car auto shop most of them have a VAT 40 or 60 electrical tester-

VAT 40's are still in use?? Figured they would be a museum piece by now :laugh:

Any VAT is pretty much a museum piece -we have one at work and I think I've used it twice in the last 10 years- OBD has progressed to the point that the cars are monitoring charging/battery systems and store faults if there are any issues. Think the last VAT I bought on craigslist was 50.00 -was a 60 and ended up selling it to a buddy in 99 because I never needed it.