650D2 coil question

This bike hasnt been started for over 30 years. I pulled the carb bank off soaked the carbs, blew them out and rebuilt them. Several weeks ago I installed a new battery & while I had the carbs off, I squirted a bit of starter fluid in the ports and hit the starter. It fired off and ran for several seconds on the shot of fluid.

So now I have the carbs done and installed. I figured it would start right up. Wrong! I have very weak spark at all 4 plugs. Its so weak I can hold onto the plugs while starting, thats how weak the spark is. I measured the voltage at the couls and have 10 volts. Battery shows 12.5. I thought Id try kicking it to save the battery but the *&%$& kick starter stopped working...wont turn the engine over. I removed the headlight to save battery voltage and still made no difference.

So I did the coil resistance checks that are in the book and they appear to be okay but I am not certain. So, how can I tell if I have a coil issue or something else. How much voltage should I have at the red/yellow wires in the coils? A full 12V? What are the chances both coils are bad. I did notice that one has a long crack in the length of the coil body and the other coil has one too but its shorted. Both cracked areas were on the inner part of the coil next to the frame. Had to remove the coils to see them. I have some other questions too but not coil related...maybe later for those..

thanks
D

kzrider.com/forum/4-electrical/593821-new-coils#631427

Thanks for that link...I 've started cleaning plugs and bullet connectors with a brass brush. The plug in connectors in the head light shell look good (no visible corrosion) but I'll take them apart and clean them anyway. I am still concerned about the cracks in the coil bodys and not sure if these coils are serviceable.

If in doubt, replace the ignition coils, as the cracks may let in moisture, shorting out the coils.

Ignition Coils And Sparkplug Wire Choices

What came with the bike, were ignition coils that even when new were marginal, add years of cooking under the tank in the stop and go traffic, and the ignition coils will probably fail when hot.

Replacement coils can be bought at www.z1enterprises.com
I believe “Emgo” is the brand. They also carry the popular Dyna 2.2 and 3 ohm coils, along with replacement sparkplug wires.

Now, you have a choice on sparkplug wires:

1. Copper plug wires with no supression caps (the best choice, but will produce audio noise on Radio’s and TV’s). Not only do the copper core wires deliver better spark, they will also deliver a much longer lifespan - carbon core wires are prone to erratic spark delivery and early breakdown, & short lifespan.

2. Copper plug wires with supression caps (a built in 5000 ohm resistor, that can sometimes fail, like what came with the bike). These should be checked with a multimeter now and then, as heat can cause them to become intermittent.

3. Copper plug wires with no supression caps, but using resistor plugs(the “R” in the plug number).

4. Supression plug wires with no supression caps.

NEVER use resistor plugs combined with supression caps along with supression plug wires, as now there will be possibly three (3) sources of resistance in the secondary windings of the ignition coils, greatly reducing the spark energy.

Another choice is the Accel 3 ohm coils, with a similar, primary(small wire)electrical connection, using ring terminals as the Dyna ignition coils do. Whatever brand of coil you go with, make sure the primary wires will clear the mounting hardware, as the spacers come close, possibly blowing a fuse. Some riders have replaced the metal spacers with non conductive Nylon spacers, reducing the chance of an electrical problem.

7mm sparkplug wires will fit the stock ignition coils(if they have replaceable wires, indicated by screw off caps on the coils with ridges). The sparkplug wires fit into a port with a brass ”Stinger” that goes into the sparkplug wire or lead(the Brit’s. Canadians, and other countries call the sparkplug wires (“High Tension Leads”).

If, while cleaning the many and various electrical switches, you find crumbled solder joints, here's how to repair them:

Repairing crumbled switch and light bulb socket soldering.

Some of the older Kawasaki's, and possibly the other brands of motorcycles may be experiencing crumbled or failed switch and light bulb factory soldering jobs. Here's a repair procedure:

When repairing soldered wires on motorcycle switches or light bulbs sockets, have the following on hand:

1. A 25 Watt soldering iron or one that the wattage can be adjusted.

2. Rosin core solder.

3. Rosin flux or soldering paste (Never use solder or soldering paste designed for plumbing work, as it contains an acid that will corrode the electrical joint, ruining it).

4. 91% rubbing Alcohol, or 70%. The lower percentage will clean up flux residue, but not as good as the higher percentage stuff. Acetone is also a good soldered joint cleaner, but’s its very flammable.

5. A cut down ½” paint brush, or acid brush for scrubbing the repaired solder joint.

6. Clean rags or paper towels

7. A damp sponge to keep the soldering iron tip clean.

8. Some “Solder Wick” a braided bare copper wire designed to collect heated excess solder, aiding in joint preperation, available at electronic supply stores.

9. Some wooden toothpicks.

10. Small Hemostats or clip on heatsinks.

A. Before soldering, “Tin” the soldering iron tip by plugging it in or turning the iron on, allowing it to get to operating temperature(2-3 minutes).

B. Unroll about 3” of solder from the roll of rosin core solder & then using a clean rag or paper towel moistened with Alcohol, wipe the unrolled solder, removing the finger print oils that will create a poor solder joint.

C. Apply a small amount of solder to the now heated soldering iron tip, wiping the excess off with the wet sponge or rag, keeping a thin layer of solder on the soldering iron.

D. The soldering iron is now ready for use, but before applying the heated tip to a wire, wipe the tip on the damp sponge or rag, this removes any oxidized solder and makes for a much better connection.

E. If the joint to be repaired is grey in color or appears “Crumbled”, apply some rosin soldering paste or flux to the joint with a small toothpick of screwdriver, and then apply the soldering iron tip for a few seconds.

G. The fluxed joint should clean up, allowing for a better connection. If no luck, use the solder wick to remove all traces of the old solder by apply in it between the soldering iron tip and the bad joint.

H. Hemostats and clip on heatsinks will be used to prevent the wire insulation from burning, overheating & pulling away from the connection.

I. Apply a small amount of flux to the joint to be repaired & then a very short duration of heated soldering iron tip & solder(like a few seconds or so).

J. Clean off the repaired joint with the brush & rubbing Alcohol, the newly repaired joint should appear clean and bright, almost as if it were polished, with no voids or holes.

This information comes from years of missile test cable and equipment assembly, when I worked at General Dynamics/Convair division in San Diego California, on the BGM-109 Tomahawk and later on the AGM-129 Advanced Cruise Missile. This was from 1983-1993.

Lots of choices there. I think the Emgo duel coils are the way to go for the time being. Looks like they come with wires but need caps and either bullet connectors for the primary wires. However, they seem to be out of stock at this time. The OEM coils have a 3'5" CTC mount holes and are 4 ohms...the Emgo sounds like a direct replacement even though they say Suzuki. No matter, I used Suzuki O rings to rebuild the VM carbs. Whatever works, works right. I havent read a lot of good PR here about the Dyna Coils. There are some Yam Road Star riders who dont care for them either...something about high failure rates.
I am still trying to track down the voltage loss to the coils. I am about 3/4 of the way through cleaning the connectors...The starter wire at the starter is next, then the frame ground. I disconnected the coils primarys from the wire harness and put my small battery charger on the yellow/red wires to provide 12 volts directly to the coil, then opened the points. It didnt make much difference. I saw no spark at the plug and I could hold the spark plug with only a small tickle. Even though the coils ohm out good I am almost sure they are shot.

Thanks for all the help and info
D

Again, thanks for the very detailed instructions for soldering and repairing crumbling joints. You worked at GD eh? Cool. My missile experience was limited to the old North American GAM77's loaded on my old B-52...back from 1962-66.

I ohmed the switches then made voltage measurements thru them...they seem to be functioning okay. I also did as you suggested pinching the wires and feeling for corrosion...again they seemed okay. This bike has always been garage stored and with the exception of the battery, brakes, fuel system ....and now the coils, its in very good condition. But then again those systems are the ones I need the most!

Thanks again. Your help is very much appreciated
D

If you need further instructions, don't be afraid to ask.....

Thanks a million...You bet I will. . ..I'm too old to afraid ! LOL
BTW...a curious thing just occurred. I finished cleaning the connections, the last two were the battery ground, and for grins I recleaned the red/yellow coil female connector in the wire harness. As someone mentioned before the lights got a little brighter. I checked the plug wires and saw the plugs sparking...weak but at least I could see it. I figured what the hell, and shot some starter fluid in the carbs. It fired up, so I pulled the choke lever up a bit and it ran!!! It didnt run well but it did run. I am feeling much better about this project now especially with the help and advice I am getting on this forum.

The Old 4 Cylinder Dinosaur

Many of you, who are owners of older bigger 4 cylinder Kawasaki’s, may have noticed when out for a ride for a snack or a “Cold One” how a crowd will gather next to your bike.

Statements will be made about how they had one, or their Fathers, Brothers or Uncles owned one and how fast it was, and how for the most part, the newer, faster, sports bikes on the street tend to be ignored when you drive up on your “Dinosaur”.

Sure, the older bikes cannot compete with today’s motorcycles in handling and acceleration, but they can sure turn heads when they rumble down the streets exhausting through a nice 4 into 1 collector.

If the owner of a new sport bike wonders why the interest in your bike, ask him/her in 20-30 years will his/her bike attract as much notice as your’s does today? Our older bikes are like the “Muscle Cars” of the 70’s.

Mtbspeedfreak wrote:
I cannot believe the number of compliments I get on my bike! Random guys (mostly ) who roll down a window at a stoplight, guys at the muffler shop, hanging out at the motorcycle shops around town.

Heard quite a few stories- "I wanted one but my GF said no, glad I listened because I married her" and the occasional "a friend of mine was killed on one..." Pull up to bike night and the Harley guys will come over, the occasional crotch rocket riding squid will mumble a compliment under his breath, and sure I get a lot of "why do you ride THAT old bike?!?" Truth is, I quite honestly wouldn't trade it for nearly anything!

Sheldon bourgeoi wrote:
I must admit, it is a pretty good feeling when you park your bike at the local stop, and people come up to it to have a look. It's even better when your getting gas, and some middle aged guy comes up to you "reminiscing" about how he had the same bike back in high school. Then, as he walks away to leave, he hands you his name and phone number on a piece of paper, then tells you to call him if you ever decide to sell it. That's happened to me more than once!

Steel Panther wrote:
The old inline fours are cool. They are my favorite bikes. The ol' Z1R with a good exhaust, made music, not noise. The vertical twins are pretty cool too. Every once in a while I'll stumble across a gem someone has preserved or restored. They always draw my attention. Cool thread, brings back memories.

roy-b-boy-b wrote:
Amen Brother. It happens to me all the time. A guy was checking out my bike real good yesterday. He had owned the Kawasaki dealership in town when the Mach II tripples came out.

Househunter wrote:
I bought my '78 KZ1000 in 1983 "BC" (Before Children) Had not been licensed since '94 until last summer. Since July '10, I put over 10K miles on her. I too have been amazed at the number of people commenting or passing on the highway and giving a "thumbs up" as they go buy. The wife wanted me to sell it many times but I just had to keep her (and the wife too). So glad I did!!!!

Z1Ron Wrote:
Soon after I had restored my Z1 in 1986 ......
I was in an auto parts store and a young kid, with a helmet under his arm, came up to me and asked if that was my Kawasaki outside. I replied yes. He said that he had one just like it. Since I hadn't seen too many in stock form, I was skeptical. However, to my surprise, there was an identical Z1 parked beside mine. Couldn't believe it. As it worked out, I had run into the fella a few months later and he asked if I wanted to buy what was left of his Z1 (there was a fire involved, but that's another story). Since now it was a basket case and missing a few things, I built a modified "Z1000R" using a GPz750 donor. It's the one in my avatar.

MDZ1Rider Wrote:
I took just the gas tank from my 73 to local body shop for a paint estimate. It took about 10 minutes before every employee (10+) was gathered round. The younger guys didn't know what they were looking at, but the older guys were schooling them..."when I was your age, if you saw that tank next to you at a red light, you didn't even try" I don't get the dangerous comments as often on the Z1. However, I heard "widow maker" more than once when I had my H2. Compared to an H2, I consider the Z1 a rather well mannered beast.


griffer Wrote:
I ride my z1a to breakfast every morning and almost every time someone comes in to find the person riding the "KZ" I used to correct them with a short education on the history of the kawasaki 4. Now I just say thanks man , I'm very proud to have owned her since new.

Jacksdad wrote:
I gotta chime in here, last winter(10-2011) money was tight, and the wife says to me we should figure out a way to cut back because of the gas prices, next day, at Home Depot,(job) I casually ask an older guy if he has any bikes for sale (he has about and he says "yeah, matter of fact I do, 79 Kawasaki KZ750 that I'd been tinckering with for a few months, but could never get to run, I'll let you take a look at it and tell me what you think" so a week goes by and I ask him if he can bring it to work with him one day, he says, sure, I tow it home, CHANGE THE PLUGS, fires right up, I quickly call him to ask what he wants for it, he says well I got 350 in it, but for you, I'll take 325, I immediately drive to his place with cash, then I tell him what I did, and he has since offered me 500 I keep saying no.. sorry to ramble on, but this is the single BEST investment I have ever made, and a lot of you guys helped me get her running as good as she does, so THANK YOU ALL. even though mine is only a two cylinder.

Tfh903 wrote:
AMEN...... Sometimes the younger ones ask me if it is a new bike, I tell them it will be 39 years old in September 2011 (4 digit serial). How many other bikes can be worth more than 5 times their original showroom sell price when they are 39 years old, and can still kick A## over a Harley twice it's size?

Mtbspeedfreak wrote:
Haha yeah I hear ya! Someone came up to me and honestly said "I didn't know they made a reproduction model of those old Kawasakis." I said,"Nope, no reproduction, this one is 35 years old!" PS- this was halfway down the Baja Mexico Peninsula, just outside Guerrero Negro.

Linsk wrote:
I had my 80 kz 1000 for 31 years I remember when it was invisible. This past year my cousin and I decided to take his 12 year old son up to americade with us. Every were we stopped people will come up and check out my bike. everybody has a story and I like hearing them. On the fourth day my godson came up to me and asked me why nobody talks about my dads bike. So iI explained to him what a classic was. I said to him I will leave my bike to him when I go. He just smiled and said I think your bike is cool. Made me smile we have to get the younger kids interested in these bikes.

Medina wrote:
Yup, 81KZ1100 and I've owned a few bikes, this is the only one I've had strangers (four so far) say something when I was out. I'm talking total strangers, out of the blue saying something. All my pals, neighbors, you lugs like it granted. But I'm talking the sort of thing where I'm turning left in the middle lane, a guy at the + intersection who is also turning left- hits his horn, rolls down the window and yells "HEY", then when I make eye contact trying to figure out wtf is going on, I get a thumbsup? THATS never ever happened. I'm just enough of a narcissist to really get off on that (over 50+ crowd here too) . Interestingly enough, there is a 79 or 80 KZP still in the white I've seen, and an 82? (that red color twin to mine) that pulled up behind me tooling around town. I didn't notice the 82 till I'd made a left turn and looked back at traffic. I'm wondering if he's an inmate here?

Bugout wrote:
I have to agree, there is always a random guy popping up somewhere with a KZ900 story. On the past Saturday I took a 120 mile round trip ride to check on a friend who had been in an accident. The first guy was stopped beside me, rolled down the passenger window and started asking about the year and displacement. Later in my ride I pulled into a biker leather place by the road side. New HD's and Victory out front, I parked beside them. As I'm walking in a guy says "I really like your bike", and it continues on from there. His first ride as a kid was on the back of one.

Kawasaki lets the good times roll...for years and years.

74ullcwrote:
Took the bike for a ride today. Stopped at the gas station near my house and noticed a guy eying me hard as I was pulling in. Sure enough, before I even got the kick stand down he was standing in front of me. "Man I haven't seen one of those in a LONG time!!!" he said with a huge grin as I was taking my helmet off.

Guy was very excited to see one out running around. We talked for probably a half hour about bikes. Turns out he had a few KZ's back in his high school days and still has a 1976 KZ900! He said the 900 has been sitting for years but he really wants to get it going again. He already knew about Z1E and Redline so that's good. I got his address and am looking forward to going to see that 900 soon.

I'm hoping that seeing me riding mine will get him inspired to get his out and get it going again. I bet it will.

I've been stopped many times at gas stations.....just thought I would share the most recent one.....bet most of you guys have identical stories. These bikes really do get tons of attention. I'm one of these that is younger then his bike so I don't remember them from "back then" but I still love 'em!

This is my first bike too. When I bought it I didn't know anything at all about it, just thought it looked right. The guy at the gas station had spotted me by the time I was pulling into the station because I saw him already looking at me. Because of the angle of the road he had only seen a straight on view of the bike at that point. Seems to me that most bikes look the same from the front from a distance so I guess it must have been the sound that got his attention?

I need to let someone else ride it so I can listen to what it sounds like coming, passing and going.

I was told I could never sneak up on anyone on my bike.
Nothing can quite compare to the sound of a big, 4 cylinder Kawasaki, getting it’s act together and moving on down the road…

If everyone keeps them alive & holds onto their Dinosaurs, maybe one day we can all do this
www.motorcyclecannonball.com/index.php?o...w=frontpage&Itemid=1
:woohoo:

Yup! Which would draw more attention - one of the bikes below or just another new plastic racer wannabee?