Missing wire on regulator?

Ok guys so I just bought a nice, spiffy aftermarket regulator off of EBay. It was listed as a perfect fit on my 82 KZ750N...as you can see from the pictures, the new one is missing a wire, the top middle connector with the white/red wire. According to the service manual, this wire runs from the regulator to the starter relay. I brought this up to the seller on eBay who insists that I don't need this connection. ...I am lost here. Any idea what is up here? I didn't install the new one because I didn't want to mess anything up...thanks for your help!!!

www.kzrider.com/forum/4-electrical/59366...new-regulator#630266

Duplicate...sorry I was trying to upload the pics last night and it kept giving me an error, it said it was never posted. Well I'll get back with the seller, idk why it would be missing that wire but we'll see what he says.

I guess the wire colors are: 3 yellow, 1 red, 1 black? And it's missing the brown wire? Correct?
Yellow = alternator wires, Red = 12V power wire, black = ground.
Brown = sensor wire, which the stock voltage regulator circuitry uses to sense whether or not the battery is charged. I do not know if the brown sensor wire is necessary for that voltage regulator. Maybe ask the seller about it?

martin_csr wrote: I guess the wire colors are: 3 yellow, 1 red, 1 blacK? And it's missing the brown wire? Correct?

It's missing the white/red wire which, according to the wiring diagram (if I'm reading it right) leads to the starter relay.

What color are the wires of the new R/R?

The white/red wire in the wiring diagram is the power wire, supplying 12VDC to the bike.
My guess is the new r/r has a red wire as the power wire & is missing the brown wire.

If that new connector is missing a wire where the old reg/rec had the red/white wire, then don't use it as is. You will have to shuffle some wires in the connector to get it right.

As Martin mentioned, new reg/recs might not have or need the sense wire like the stock one did, and that wire would have been a small brown wire. The red/white is the main output wire, and obviously, both reg/recs need an output wire. The new reg/rec seems to have the output wire in the wrong position.

Can you describe the layout of the old and new connectors in terms of what color wires go where?

Ok, so this is the most recent message I got from the seller:

Seller's message:
"Hi, Thanks for the email. Yes that regulator will work just fine. The wire that is missing is a voltage sense wire on your stock regulator. It senses battery voltage fed back from the headlight switch I believe. This is a bad reference point, as it will be at a lower voltage than the battery is actually at. Our regulators do not use them, and take their reference directly from the battery connections. It will work great on your bike. Thanks! Evan"

Thoughts?

Yes, that's true, but if the output wire is in the wrong place, it still won't work.

Lou, does the black/ground wire on his new R/R provide the feedback function?

phillyman, did the new R/R comes w a wiring schematic or anything?
I'm assuming it has a red power wire & a black ground wire, plus the 3 yellow alternator wires.
As loudhvx already mentioned, you may have to reshuffle the wires in the connector.
You just have to make sure the 3 yellow wires are aligned w yellow, Red w the white/red power wire, & black to the black/yellow ground wire.

martin_csr wrote: Lou, does the black/ground wire on his new R/R provide the feedback function?

Yes, it provides the ground reference to compare the output voltage against.

So even though the output wire is a shorter path to the battery, and thus, is a better measure of battery voltage, if the ground reference is still taking a long path, you still have the problem of a long path affecting the reg/rec's ability to measure the battery voltage accurately. If you really want to be ideal, you would mount the reg/rec on the battery and have two dedicated wires going directly to the battery terminals. But that's a little overkill because a reg/rec doesn't really know exactly what voltage the battery wants, even if it can measure it precisely. The battery's ideal voltage is a complicated thing based on temperature, battery type, condition, how much current it just used to start the bike etc etc. And even if the reg/rec could measure the battery voltage precisely and accurately, and could somehow predict what voltage the battery should be at exactly, the reg/rec still won't be able to deliver that because the alternator works in pulses, and the ignition works in pulses. This means there is always some ripple in the voltage. But that is actually a good thing because it allows the battery voltage a tiny bit of room to "float" to whatever voltage it needs to, which is how it's meant to work. It's not meant to be a precision device. It's one of those simple/crude devices that gets the job done.

Bottom line is, as long as you keep your wiring in decent condition, the external sense line works just fine. But when you get symptoms that the wiring is not in good condition, like coil voltage being low, don't just hide it using a relay. Clean the switch contacts and replace wires that look damaged etc. etc.

When it comes to lithium batteries, it may be a little too crude for all applications. It seems to work ok on some bikes and completely go up in flames on other bikes. Or is it that a defective regulator doesn't burn down a lead-acid battery, but can burn a lithium?

Lithium batteries are very sensitive to overcharging, so yes, a defective R/R could damage one.
AFA running the ground wires, I find it best to run all grounds to one central ground point, then run that to the battery. IOW, run the solenoid, R/R and engine grounds to a frame ground bolt, then a single wire to the negative post on the battery. That way the ground reference is the same for all electrical devices.
AFA cleaning all the contact points, on my GS1100E I discovered that I had a voltage drop through my ignition switch. Not wanting to overhaul or replace it, I chose to install a relay.
On my GPz, I chose to install a separate fuse block with a relay. Then it powered not only my Accel coils, but also my grip heaters, aftermarket horns, and other small current devices that did not otherwise have a direct connection to the junction box where the fuses reside.