Advancer issues

any one have a good write up on the advance maintenance.

Please put your bike's year & model in your signature line. Not all KZ's are alike. Ed

80 kz650 runs great at times and other times it dies, doesn't want to start. random back fire thru the carb.

I'd check the valves first. When's the last time they were checked for proper clearances? The mechanical ignition advancer does require periodic maintenance, mostly cleaning and lubrication. Do not stretch the springs on the advancer, as it will affect the timing curve.

MFolks wrote: I'd check the valves first. When's the last time they were checked for proper clearances? The mechanical ignition advancer does require periodic maintenance, mostly cleaning and lubrication. Do not stretch the springs on the advancer, as it will affect the timing curve.

if it was a clearance issue wouldn't it run like shit all the time?

vrdash4 wrote:

MFolks wrote: I'd check the valves first. When's the last time they were checked for proper clearances? The mechanical ignition advancer does require periodic maintenance, mostly cleaning and lubrication. Do not stretch the springs on the advancer, as it will affect the timing curve.

if it was a clearance issue wouldn't it run like shit all the time?

No, not unless they were really really bad.

Normally, when the clearance just starts to go out of spec on a cylinder or two, the problem only shows up when the bike is at it's hottest. After it cools down it will run like normal.

And the problem will usually only show up at idle the most.

So the first symptoms are usually that the bike dies while trying to idle right after a hot highway run.

If your points & condenser haven't been replaced in the last 5,000 miles or so you may want to replace them and clean & lube the advancer. If they are fairly new, you can just check that the advancer is working freely by twisting the little points cam by hand and seeing if it snaps back freely and/or by using a timing light and watching the marks on the advancer as you slowly increase and decrease the engine rpm. You should be able to tell if it is sticking.

If it is sticking you need to clean & lube it which will involve removing the points plate and advancer. If that is the case, or if you need instructions on replacing the points, let us know. Ed

650ed wrote: If your points & condenser haven't been replaced in the last 5,000 miles or so you may want to replace them and clean & lube the advancer. If they are fairly new, you can just check that the advancer is working freely by twisting the little points cam by hand and seeing if it snaps back freely and/or by using a timing light and watching the marks on the advancer as you slowly increase and decrease the engine rpm. You should be able to tell if it is sticking.

If it is sticking you need to clean & lube it which will involve removing the points plate and advancer. If that is the case, or if you need instructions on replacing the points, let us know. Ed

Im going to start with the points... is there a write up online?

The manual has several pages of instructions, pictures, etc. on how to set the timing using the static method plus timing light, plus dwell meter. I can give you a fairly easy way that will get you in a pretty close ballpark without a timing light or dwell meter, but you will need a 0.35 mm feeler gauge and a multi-meter or other device to test continuity. To be very precise, the timing light and dwell meter will be needed.

Before attempting to replace or adjust the points the following is important to understand; timing is comprised of two separate components, and BOTH of these components MUST be set properly if the engine is to run well:

--- The GAP – this is the distance the points spread apart when fully open. The GAP is the element that determines the DWELL. In essence, the DWELL is the number of degrees of points cam rotation that the points are closed and this controls the amount of time the coils receive a charge before firing the spark plugs.

--- The TIMING of the initial opening of the points (the point at which the continuity across the points breaks). This controls the precise instant that the coils receive the signal to fire the spark plugs.

Remove the points cover on the right side of engine. Under it you will see 2 sets of points. The set on the left fires cylinders 1 & 4; the set on the right fires 2 & 3. When replacing points observe carefully how the little bits and pieces are arranged where the wires attach. Some of those pieces are actually insulators and if you leave any of them out or put them back in the wrong place the points will be grounded and won't work. Take a very close look at the contact surfaces of the points. If they are pitted you really should replace them. You can sand down pitted points, but they will quickly pit again. Replace one set of points at a time so you can look at the other set in case you get the little bits confused.

When adjusting the points, use a 17 mm wrench to turn the nut NEAR the end of the crankshaft clockwise while looking in the hole above that nut. (Do NOT use a wrench on the smaller bolt on the very end of the crankshaft to turn the engine.) Inside that hole you will see a vertical pointer cast into the casing. As you turn the 17 mm nut you will see a 1 & 4 and F and T roll by and then you'll see a 2 & 3 and F and T roll by. Each F and T has a line next to it.

Here's the method I use for static timing. I turn OFF the ignition. I disconnect the green wire near one coil and the black wire near the other coil. (This is not in the book, but it makes checking continuity much easier for me.) After installing the new points or cleaning up the old ones, turn the 17 mm nut while watching the points. When points set 1&4 are at their widest gap adjust them (by loosening the 2 screws that hold the points to the backplate) so the gap equals 0.35 mm. Turn the 17 mm nut clockwise through a full revolution again and double check this gap. Then repeat this for points set 3&4. Now set your meter to test continuity and clip one wire to the leaf spring on points set 1&4 and clip the other wire to ground. Turn the 17 mm nut clockwise until the 1&4 "F" mark aligns with the pointer mentioned above. You want the continuity across point set 1&4 to just break when the F mark aligns with the pointer. The idea is that when the continuity just fails is when the points will fire their respective coil and cylinders. In order to adjust the point at which continuity fails you loosen the 3 screws that hold the backplate to the engine and slightly turn the backplate until the meter shows a break in continuity. Once you have the 1&4 set timed properly you can check the 2&3 set to make sure they break when the 2&3 F mark aligns with the pointer (they should or something is not right). Don't forget to plug in the green and black coil wires when you are done, and put a little grease on the rubbing block felt. Assuming you are using new points of the correct type this should enable you to get the timing very close. Trying this with old points may give poor results, especially if the points are pitted and/or the rubbing blocks are worn.

After you have set the gap (which in effect sets the dwell) and the timing using the method above you can use a dwell meter and timing light to fine tune dwell and timing. If you have followed the above procedure carefully, very little if any fine tuning will be needed.
Sorry this is so long. It's not as difficult as it sounds. Ed