Confirm my suspicion - dying starter motor

SON OF A BISCUIT!!!



I installed these springs (and new caps and rollers) less than a year ago.

I guess this explains the starter clutch issues. I'd still like some advice on my above post about removing the starter clutch from the dynamo/flywheel.

Here is the under side

Got my starter rebuild kit and went ahead and tested the armature/commutator again. I could use some help interpreting the results.

Test 1
The manual says to test with the meter in rx1 between any two segments and if there's no reading or a high reading (it doesn't say how high that is) then the armature is bad.

I think I'm OK here. I've got a digital multimeter, set it to the 200 ohm setting and I got a reading at all the contacts. It would jump up to a reading and then quickly settle down to 0. I'm assuming that's what's expected, if not the whole thing is fried because they all did that.

Test 2
Manual says to use the highest ohm range and test between the armature and the center shaft. If there's any reading at all the armature has a short.

This is where things might be bad. I set my digital multimeter to the 2000k ohm setting and I get a reading between the armature and the shaft. If I dial back to 200k and below, I get no reading.

So does my armature have a short?

I installed the rebulid kit and hooked a battery to the starter. It seems to work. I don't know what to make of this. Can any of you shed some light?

BTY - Thanks Rainman for the starter clutch photos, that helps a lot!

Topper wrote: Got my starter rebuild kit and went ahead and tested the armature/commutator again. I could use some help interpreting the results.

Test 1
The manual says to test with the meter in rx1 between any two segments and if there's no reading or a high reading (it doesn't say how high that is) then the armature is bad.

I think I'm OK here. I've got a digital multimeter, set it to the 200 ohm setting and I got a reading at all the contacts. It would jump up to a reading and then quickly settle down to 0. I'm assuming that's what's expected, if not the whole thing is fried because they all did that.

Test 2
Manual says to use the highest ohm range and test between the armature and the center shaft. If there's any reading at all the armature has a short.

This is where things might be bad. I set my digital multimeter to the 2000k ohm setting and I get a reading between the armature and the shaft. If I dial back to 200k and below, I get no reading.

So does my armature have a short?

I installed the rebulid kit and hooked a battery to the starter. It seems to work. I don't know what to make of this. Can any of you shed some light?

BTY - Thanks Rainman for the starter clutch photos, that helps a lot!

At the 2000k readings could get skewed from the carbon buildup all over the armature. wouldn't sweat it much.

elfmagic17 wrote: At the 2000k readings could get skewed from the carbon buildup all over the armature. wouldn't sweat it much.

OK, that's a relief. I think my starter is good to go now. Now I'm just waiting a few days on another set of starter clutch springs.

I'm really surprised and more than a little ticked about those. I just installed those springs less than a year ago. Gonna replace all three and hope they last a little longer this time.

Continuity to each two of any of the commutator contacts, should be good. As far as Ohms for short checking, the higher the scale, the smaller amount of contact it can measure.
Try using some voltage to check it out. A test light bulb, 12v, make a circuit through two of the commutator contacts and use the volt meter to check the shaft for voltage. If there is a short to the shaft you will measure voltage there. Or you can use two test lights, one to supply voltage to two of the commutator contacts and one from the commutator lead and to the shaft checking for a light to come on. Either way if there is a short it will show up.

Well that didn't do any good. I replaced the starter brushes, springs, plate, etc., installed new starter clutch springs, put everything back together and the results are the same.

The bike seems to start right up the first time. Then I let it run a few minutes, cut it off and when I try to start it again the starter clutch just grinds and grinds.

The starter clutch sprocket is the part the clutch rollers contact correct? I thought about replacing it, but it's impossible to come by new. There's a couple used ones on eBay, but they might not be any better than what I've got.

What about roughing up the surface of the sprocket that contacts the rollers? Could I rough that up with sandpaper or something to provide a little more friction for the rollers to bite into?

Given how hard that part is to come by I don't want to risk ruining mine if that's not the problem. Do you see any potential problems with trying this?

Apologies for the bump. I'd really like to take care of this today or tomorrow. Hoping someone can advise me on whether or not roughing up the race on the starter clutch gear with sandpaper or a file is a really bad idea or not.

Did you have a look at the roller grooves/ cavities when you were in there? You would see the wear on those. I would look at it, with the rollers, pins and springs in place. With the gear installed, looking at how far the rollers sit. See if there is any pressure against the pins, or if they are to far out. If the rollers are way at one end of there groove then its probably too worn. You probably need to have it separated, those three bolts out to look at it this way. The other part that can be worn is the journal on the gear itself, where the rollers cause the downward pressure. This is the chain gear. I don't know if there is a spec for that diameter in the service manual or not.
As far as Roughing it up with sand paper. Well I don't know if that would work or for how long.
Replacing the Hub that the rollers go in, and the sprocket gear, would be best. So that way all those parts that are worn would be replaced. Might be hard to find though. Use the cross reference at Kawasaki.com and see if any of it fits another model. Then do a Goggle search for the #'s. Hopefully some NOS parts are out there and affordable. Otherwise getting a used complete starter clutch off of Feebay, Might work, but depends on condition. A crap shot for sure.

The Starter Clutch #22 is listed as active from kawasaki, and fits several models. 13193-1001
The Sprocket Gear is whats cancelled, for the chain. Doesn't look to fit other models. #30 21170-003 It fits the 750 twin only. 76-82

Firefox still won't let me upload. If you want I can go back into this with another browser and upload the parts fiche.

Thanks Motor Head. The rollers are all new but the grooves they sit in could be worn. I'm having trouble figuring out exactly where I'd look for wear. I don't think there's a spec in the manual for the diameter of the journal on the chain gear either. If there is I haven't seen it. That's a part that's expensive and hard to find. Hoping I don't have to replace it. The hub might be easier to find.

Go to the drawing at Kawasaki, and look at the assy. That will help you to make double sure all parts are there and assembled correctly. Then as I said you can have the whole thing assembled, with it off and on the bench, and look at the contact of those rollers. It would be best to see them somewhere near the middle, not all the way to the far end of their grooves, with the springs and pins extended.

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