Confirm my suspicion - dying starter motor

Hey Topper,
I found another thread here also. It has a Great Breakdown of the internal parts of the starter.
www.kzrider.com/forum/4-electrical/30209...ternal-gear-slipping
#22 is what your looking for, which holds #17 in the housing. #17 is the Sun Gear I mentioned.
If the key can't be found, Make one. It will have to of hardened metal.
It should be able to be found with a magnet, might be stuck still in the starter housing against one of the magnets.
If you have a good Auto Electrics place in your area, try them for a new/ used brush spring and maybe a Key/ Pin too.
Good Luck.

Well the problem isn't the key/pin. Pulled the starter again and the sun gear is locked in place as it should be. I did find a thrust washer had gotten dropped down in the area of the armature. I pulled it out and put it back where it belonged. Figured that was the problem, put it all back together and the bike started right up. Let it run a few minutes, cut it off, guess what?? It wouldn't start. Just that grinding noise from the starter clutch area again.

So would a slow/weak starter cause these symptoms? Would it cause the starter clutch to grate and rattle like marbles?

What about a loose dyno rotor?

Did you use Loc-tite on the bolts for the starter clutch hub to the Rotor? Maybe they cam loose.
Was the Hub worn where the rollers ride? If so it probably needs replacing.
Looks like pulling it apart for inspection.

I've got a couple questions for you now.

First, I'd really like to get a look at what's happening behind the generator cover when I try to start the bike. I'm suspecting that the starter is weak/slow and that's causing the starter clutch to grind. I'm hoping that watching it will confirm this. What I don't know is how much of a mess this is going to make. There's not much oil behind that cover when I pull it, but I'm wondering if I'd be surprised when the rotor starts spinning. Anybody ever done this?

Second, if I'm right about the starter it needs a rebuild. I've previously tested the armature and it's status is questionable. I'd prefer to find a functioning starter from another bike and rebuild it, but they're hard to come by. What about replacing just the armature inside my starter and keeping my housing? Kawasaki.com doesn't list this as a separate part in the diagrams so I don't have anyway to see what fits what. Has anyone else done this? Would the armature from inside another 70's era KZ likely fit and work inside my housing?

I've heard that the twins (like mine) turn backwards compared to the four cylinder bikes. So I'd look for an armature from another twin.

There is a few KZ750 Twin complete Starters on Feebay at the moment for less than $50. There are lots of parts as well,even saw a Brush Spring, but no separate Armatures. Better to just get a good used Starter as its cheap enough.
I don't have a twin, so not so sure on the cover off cranking it over,I would make sure of no starting. But the other parts of your one-way starter clutch sprag may be worn. Did you put just the repair kit in? The Hub for the rollers, and the gear itself may be worn.The rollers need to be able to apply pressure, wedge in between these to parts. So if they are worn, the rollers will not wedge/ grab.

Here's a place that sells new starters; they list one for your model. Maybe give them a call to verify. Ed

www.motorcityreman.com/620-079.html

I could only find 1 starter on ebay for my bike and the seller doesn't even state that it works. They've not responded to my message requesting more info either. The other KZ750 starters won't fit.

As for the starter clutch, yes I just put in a rebuild kit (springs, rollers and pins). The gear didn't look worn, but I don't really know what they looked like new. It's just a smooth round gear with no ridges or anything to catch the rollers. I didn't notice any wear at all.

Thanks Ed! That could be just the ticket. $130 is a fair chunk of change (for me), but if I buy a used starter for $50 and a rebuild kit for $30, I'm almost there anyway.

No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationNo eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationNo eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationWhat about where the rollers contact in the Hub portion, as this is the Cam for the Wedge action. They can get worn causing poor lock up of the clutch/ sprag. Or maybe the bolts have backed out, the three which hold the hub to the Rotor.

When I looked I saw three twin starters, or so they said.

Oh the Armatures would be quite different from a Gear reduction twin to a 4 cyl, so any Armature would have to come from a twin. Maybe there is a Starter from one of the other manufactures that would be the same? Don't know. There is one that will fit the 4 cyl bikes though.

Yea sometimes those Feebayers are pretty lame. I've got a open case now for an Item I have never received. Guy didn't even have the parts in stock, but has a listing for it? Jerks.

I could only find this one, this time.


This is a XS850 Starter, which takes the same rebuild kit.

And Another

Don't know how close it would be, maybe a housing change? Armature should be the same I would think, with them taking the same rebuild kits, but not sure.

I've decided to give my starter one more shot at life. I've ordered a rebuild kit and will see if that solves the problem. I still have doubts about the armature and doubts about whether the problem is the starter or the starter clutch.

There's a lot of carbon in the starter and I figure a rebuild kit is cheap and can't hurt. If this doesn't solve it, I'll pull the starter clutch again and give it a closer inspection.

The Armature of course can and should be be tested. If your not sure about your test, you could have it checked at a Re-builders. Your service manual will have the Ohm Meter check, best to use a good quality one.
In the video you posted it sure sounds like the starter is turning, but not engaging. Since you had it apart for the brush spring problem I was hoping for something simple like the Pin. There are also New Starter End Covers with New reduction gears on Feebay.
At least you have a Kicker on yours.

I decided to inspect the starter clutch while I wait for my starter rebuild kit. Everything looks OK, but I've never been able to separate the starter clutch from the dynamo/flywheel.

I can replace the rollers/springs/etc. without taking it off the rotor, but I'd like to get it all the way apart to really inspect it.

There are three allen bolts holding it to the flywheel. I removed those and they're still stuck together. Whacked it with a rubber mallet, still stuck.

I don't want to damage the thing by applying too much force.

Any suggestions here?