1981 KZ550 Ignition Questions

1)can a kz650 points/condensor plate be used on a kz 550? same? Considering installing points on an 81kz550 a2

2)is there a test procedure for the 81 kz550 igniter?

3) same as 2 for the pick up?

The 650 timing plate might fit, but then you have to figure out the rotor/advancer/cam mechanism. You'd also have to get some higher-resistance coils to prevent burning the points too fast. It's a big step backward in technology... not sure if it's worth the effort/money since you'd have to pay for coils.

The pickups can simply be ohmed out per the manual. There are several downloadable manuals in my signature. I recommend you grab all of them, along with the wiring diagrams.

Here's a link for checking the magnet polarity on the pickups in case you've had it apart:
home.comcast.net/~loudgpz/GPZweb/Ignitio.../PickupAndRotor.html

If the pickups are bad, you can get a set of pickups from some other KZ (650, 750-4, 1000) and use just the pickup coils themselves. They are all the same from that first generation of ignitions. You can even swap a 1-4 pickup for a 2-3 pickup and vice versa.


The igniter is trickier. Ohm tests will be inconclusive. They might be able to confirm if one is dead, but it can't confirm one is good.

Since your bike essentially has two ignition systems, you can usually do some troubleshooting by swapping wires around to identify the bad part.

If the pickups ohm out ok, but you get no spark at all, and you have voltage to the igniter and coils, then you can always try to make an igniter. It's pretty low-cost. The details are in my signature.

Thanks. This is for someone on the GSR forum who has been unable to get an account here for some strange reason. I'll pass it on.

I wroye this for the bigger 4's, but the ohm readings should be the same.

Ohm Checking Pickup(Pulsing) Coils

The pickup(Pulsing) coils on the Kawasaki’s with the factory supplied electronic ignition can sometimes fail or become intermittent due to heat and vibration.

1.Trace back from where the pick up coils are mounted,(BEHIND A RIGHT SIDE, CD SIZED ENGINE COVER) locate and disconnect a small 4 pin connector. Using a multi-meter set on OHMS and range of 2K, check between the BLUE and BLACK wires(#1 and #4 sparkplug wires) for between 360- 540 OHMS.

2.For #2 and #3 sparkplugs the wire colors will be YELLOW and RED, again 360-540 OHMS. The 550’s,650’s & 750’s may be backwards to the Z1’s,Kz900’s,Kz1000’s & Kz1100’s.

3.If the pickup coils are suspect of failing due to heat, they can be stressed using a hair dryer without the need of the engine running.

4.A replacement set of pickup coils might be obtained from a dealer who serviced the police Kawasaki’s.

5. If replacement pickup coils are not available, your next choice would be to order a Dyna “S” electronic ignition system from www.z1enterprises.com It replaces the IC igniter with a smaller module located where the mechanical ignition advancer was mounted.

6. Checking with Kawasaki.com website has determined that the Pick up(pulsing) coils are available . The pulsing coil # is 59026-1133 and replaces the older # 1002, 1012 which were used from the MKII motors until the 2005 P24.

7.Check the small 4 pin connector that the pickup coils connect to for corrosion/loose pins too.

8. The mechanical ignition advancer needs periodic service too, it's in the area of the pickup coils, mounted on the end of the crankshaft. Some light lubrication on the weight pivots and the moving shaft are about all it needs. A dab of Moly grease or 3-in-one oil will work for this.

OldSchoolZ wrote:
From my experience in shops, the pickup coils either quit working when the motor is good and hot and with ohm meter tested right after it quits, the ohms show bad, then while it cooling down, you'll see the ohms come back and it runs on that pickup again until it gets hot. OR they don’t work at all. High rpm doesn’t sound like a pickup coil. I'd suspect something in wiring or ignition coil.

P.S. remove sparkplug caps if they unscrew from wire and ohm them out where wire goes in to where the plug connects. Often an old cap builds high resistance and will only fire at high rpm. Your caps resistances should be similar to each other(5000 ohms). If you get one not showing continuity, that’s most likely your problem. And sometimes you need to trim wire back and inch or so to get good wire to screw back into. (if wires are not too short to do so) That’s just something to check that is problematic with hot running air cooled motors. They will eventually cook the caps and the resistor inside the cap goes bad.



Troubleshooting IC Igniter & Pickup(Pulsing) Coils

On a 4 cylinder, you can use the swapping method to identify exactly what part is bad.

Try swapping the plug wires and the coil wires. And see if the problem stays with the green coil wire? Or did it move to the black coil wire?

(I assume you are using the tach to determine which coil wire (green or black) is firing intermittently.)

If it is always the green coil wire, then it's the green 2/3 circuit in the igniter, or it's the yellow/red pickup.

To determine which, you would have to make some jumpers and jumper the pickup wires to the igniter. Black pickup wire jumps to yellow igniter wire, and yellow pickup wire jumps to black igniter wire. Blue pickup wire jumps to red igniter wire, and red pickup wire jumps to blue igniter wire.

Then, you have to pull off the timing plate, and remove the timing rotor. You do this by advancing it, then pulling it off (after you remove the small bolt holding it on). Don't try to turn the big nut. It's actually not a nut, but is just keyed to the advancer hub to turn the crank. Be careful with the bolts on the advancer, they have a history of getting messed up.

Re-install the advancer pointer 180 degrees out from where it started. (Normally, originally, the pointer pointed toward the "TEC" logo.) You do this by holding the advancer arms open, then slide the pointer sleeve over the advancer hub. (Just the opposite of what you did to remove it.) (Hope you have 3 hands. )

Now, if the problem of the flakey tach stays on the green coil wire, it is the igniter that is bad. If it is on the black coil wire, the problem is the red/yellow pickup.

Re: IC Igniter testing.

A good, cheaper replacement can be made using off the shelf GM ignition modules. This will only work with bikes with the mechanical ignition advancer. A forum member at www.kzrider.com named "Loudhvx" has used this on his GPz 550 for a number of years. It can be used on several models of 1980's Kawasaki's:

home.comcast.net/~loudgpz/GPZ...ZgmHEImod.html

Here's a cross index for the modules:

GM HEI Ignition Modules (4 Pin) Cross Index


AC DELCO

---

DM1906 or D1906

WELLS

---

DR 100

ACCEL

---

ACC 35361/ACC 35367

PERTRONIX

---

D2000

CAR QUEST

---

21040

NAPA ECHLIN

---

ECH TP45

NIEHOFF

---

DR 400

BORG WARNER

---

Select CBE4/CBE22

GM

---

10482820

Mallory

---

607

Jegs

---

555-40600

Moroso

---

97857

what he do not have an account here? up until the recent upgrade my coffee pot could have an account

ramtough_63 wrote: what he do not have an account here? up until the recent upgrade my coffee pot could have an account

Perhaps we should send him your coffee pot?
He tells me he has tried multiple times, even used a second email address, to no avail. He has always been straight up on GSR, so I have no reason to disbelieve him now.
I sent a message to the moderator weeks ago, but have yet to hear from him. Not sure what is going on.

Another note from the GSR / non-KZR person:

Ok, got spark, went old_skool, installed points, everything set there, have a nice healthy spark, right wires to right coils etc, still no start, doesn't appear to be getting fuel to the cylinders, new plugs and gap set at .75mm, points set at .35, F mark set, carb stripped and dipped, all new o-rings, bench sync, idle mixture at 1-1/8 turns out, I have very little history on this motor, but was supposedly ran(roll eyes) no airbox, has pods, but I'd figure it at least try to fire even with pods with choke closed all the way, as those choke slides restrict tremendously, fuel is getting to the fuel bowls, just not getting to the cylinders....not sure what jet sizes, forgot to record them when I had it apart, but that shouldn't affect idle. Vacuum's at intakes all sealed, using a temp fuel tank, non vacuum petcock, fuels getting to the carbs. Usually, these things aren't that complicated to figure out, this one has me slightly baffled. I'll probably remove the plugs and squirt a little gas in the cylinders to see if that will fire and try and draw more fuel in, it's also 25-35 degrees out, even in the garage(unheated)
Oh yeah, also tested the coils completely, voltage and ohms, passed ok, no worries on the coils from an igniter style ignition, I added a 2 ohm ballast resistor to correct the ohms as not to burn the points.

Are you sure you have spark to the correct cylinder at the correct time?

2-ohm resistor is not really a great permanent solution. It will cut the voltage to the coils by almost half. That's like trying to start the bike with only 7 volts to the coils.

loudhvx wrote: Are you sure you have spark to the correct cylinder at the correct time?

2-ohm resistor is not really a great permanent solution. It will cut the voltage to the coils by almost half. That's like trying to start the bike with only 7 volts to the coils.

A direct quote from Dynatek-->" For breaker points ignitions use 5.0 ohm coils or 3.0 ohm coils with a 1 to 2 ohm ballast resistor in series with the +12 volt supply wire to the coil."

I verified the correct spark at the right time when I set the static timing.

This engine was supposed to have the air valve/vacuum suction on the exhaust side breather caps on the valve cover(81 motor), but is currently open with no components, I know this will/can cause running or detonation issuses...but anything to do with starting or drwing fuel in??
Thanks guys.
Rich

koolaid_kid wrote:

loudhvx wrote: Are you sure you have spark to the correct cylinder at the correct time?

2-ohm resistor is not really a great permanent solution. It will cut the voltage to the coils by almost half. That's like trying to start the bike with only 7 volts to the coils.

A direct quote from Dynatek-->" For breaker points ignitions use 5.0 ohm coils or 3.0 ohm coils with a 1 to 2 ohm ballast resistor in series with the +12 volt supply wire to the coil."

I verified the correct spark at the right time when I set the static timing.

This engine was supposed to have the air valve/vacuum suction on the exhaust side breather caps on the valve cover(81 motor), but is currently open with no components, I know this will/can cause running or detonation issuses...but anything to do with starting or drwing fuel in??
Thanks guys.
Rich

Dropping the voltage that low will produce a weak spark. A 1 ohm ballast would be a better choice, (as long as it is a true ballast, and not a regular resistor, of course). But even with the wrong ballast, it should at least backfire or something.

Are you sure that the spark is not 180 deg out? The timing marks will still line up, but the sparks will happen on the wrong cylinders. That can happen if the coil wires are swapped, or if the points wires are swapped, or if the points cam is installed backwards.

The 1 and 4 cylinders have to be near the top when the points with the black wire start to open.
The 2 and 3 cylinders have to be near the top when the points with the green wire start to open.
The right side coil should go to cylinders 1 and 4, and have the black points wire.
The left side coil should go to cylinders 2 and 3 and have the green points wire.
I think the points with the black wire should be on the left (toward the rear of the bike), and the points with the green wire should be on the right (toward the front of the bike).

The air suction system does not take air into the cylinder, and does not affect combustion in the cylinder. It injects air into the exhaust system to allow any fuel to continue burning in the exhaust system. If the control valve is gone, and the top ports are left open, the only symptom will be large backfires in the muffler. Temporarily, you can probably just tape them shut. There is a reed valve inside which should prevent any exhaust from coming out of the ports. If you mean the covers are missing and the reed valves are missing, then exhaust will be blowing straight out of the valve cover. It should still run, but there will be a really big exhaust leak and associated backfires.

However, the control valve had two vac lines going to the intake manifolds. Those absolutely need to be capped off. I think you said that you capped those, and the fifth one on the #4 carb for the petcock.

The most likely cause of a no-start, if you have fuel in the carbs, and proper spark, is missing flaps on the choke plates. If you can look into the carb openings check for the choke plate flaps.

I don't have the tiny flaps on the choke slide plates, don't know why that didn't ring any alarms when I rebuilt them, I know what your talking about, I saw them on a set of carbs for a cb350 I rebuilt for a neighbor, the spring for them is there, no flaps, where can I source a set??
I have some backfire going on now, I primed the cylinders with fuel and determined my points were arcing...bad condensors and posibbly points as well, they aren't new, but will be soon.
Thanks guys,
Rich

With no flaps, you essentially have no choke at all.

You can seal them off, or make new flaps.

People have done both. There should be several threads on both solutions. Making the flaps is harder, but may work better if you don't want to rejet and/or ride in the cold a lot. (With pods you will have to rejet to run right.)

If you seal the slides off, and do the fast-idle mod for the TK-22 carbs, and then adjust the choke slide position, and have the bike jetted properly, it shouldn't be too hard to get a decent workable bike. It will, of course, require the owner to know exactly how to set the choke and throttle etc for easy starting and riding it while warming up.

In my signature is a TK-22 website which has the details on how to drill pilots to get a different jetting (there is no source for TK-22 pilots other than stock 32 in the rebuild kits). You will want at least 34 pilots with pods, if not 37.

There is also a link to the fast-idle adjuster mod. This should be done, even on a totally stock bike.

There is also a page describing how the flaps break and what to look for, but if yours are gone, then it's too late. There are also details on the choke plate dimensions.

It also has details on different jet needles available and how to change them and shim them properly.

For now, just to get it started, take off the pods and place a piece of cardboard over the openings while cranking. You will have to modulate the opening to get it to run in order to warm it up.