Green Dyna coils and Ohms.

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26 Oct 2012 19:28 #555919 by KZB2 650
Green Dyna coils and Ohms. was created by KZB2 650
Kz650 has no spark so I've tryed to figure it out on here.

Have 12.2 volts at the points, the kill switch and it goes down when I turn it off and right back on to 12.2, 12.2 at the coils going in at the harness and the coil screws, new 20 amp fuse twice, new strong battery, and new capasitors but I suppose one could be bad?, plug wires checked out ok but will replace.

So Being the brilliant mechanic I will never clain to be I desided to check the coils for resistance. Took them back off and tested the 1/4 coil... 3.8 ohms at the wires yel/red/black ok good then checked between the two wires and got 114k to 118k, three diff times. through the plug wires and with them off going directly into the coil same reading.

On the 2/3 coil I get 3.8 at the wires and only 14.4k on the digital meter and 20k on the anolog.

I think the 2/3 is good at that reading and if it is then the 1/4 is 8 times higher on the ohms and I'm praying this could have lead to the no spark and showing thats its going out because..... I desided to remove the tape between the yel/red terminal on the side of the coil to get at it better and since the bracket was a little loose... I touched it with the socket and now 0 ohms. I know better and the second I did it I knew I screwed up. Still get 3.8 on the wires but nothing out of the plug wire outlets. Not sure if I should hide this stupid mistake from the wife or not. Sure making me feel like a fool trust me.

Think its safe to say the coil is gone now but please please was it on its way out with the 114k to 118k reading already?? Would this be off enough to have stopped it from sparking?? If I have to buy the coils and still the Dyna s as the points could be gone too, This is gonna really hurt right now.

Tell me what you think and also I've been laying all 4 plugs on the head trying to get a light show can this short out the new coils if I do this too ??? Two sets would end the project real quick.

Also sorry one more on this set up when one coil goes bad the other one will not fire either right?? I'm getting no spark at all to all 4. Thanks guys.

1978 KZ650 b-2
700cc Wiseco kit 10 to 1.
1980 KZ750 cam, ape springs, stock clutch/ Barnett springs.
Vance and Hines Header w/ comp baffle and Ape pods, Dyna S and green coils, copper wires.
29MM smooth bores W/ 17.5 pilots, 0-6s and 117.5 main
16/42 gearing X ring chain and alum rear JT sprocket.

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26 Oct 2012 19:46 #555923 by MFolks
Replied by MFolks on topic Green Dyna coils and Ohms.
I'd replace all 4 sparkplug caps, as they contain non seviceable 5000 ohm resistors,designed to reduce the electrical "Noise" (actually RFI) when the sprkplugs fire across the gap.

Heat, and age causes the sparkplug caps to fail, or become intermittent in operation.

1982 GPZ1100 B2
General Dynamics/Convair 1983-1993
GLCM BGM-109 Tomahawk, AGM-129A Advanced Cruise Missile (ACM)

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26 Oct 2012 19:49 #555924 by MFolks
Replied by MFolks on topic Green Dyna coils and Ohms.
Ignition Coil Primary And Secondary Wiring

Ignition coils on the 80’s Kz1000,Kz1100’s and Gpz1100’s are wired the same, that is as you sit on the bike, the LEFT ignition coil primary(small wires) are two wires, RED and BLACK. The secondary (or sparkplug wires) go to #1 and #4 sparkplugs(your primary wiring may be different).

Read carefully, as the 550’s, 650’s, 700’s & 750’s are backwards to what is listed for the bigger 4’s.

The cylinders are numbered left to right as you sit on the seat; #1,#2,#3, and #4.

For the RIGHT ignition coil, the primary wires, again are two wires, RED and GREEN, with the secondary going to #2 and #3.

The RED wire gets it’s voltage from the run/stop switch on the right handlebar switch pod. Your primary wiring may have a different color.

The BLACK and GREEN wires connect to the IC Igniter(if the bike has the Kawasaki supplied electronic ignition) it actually gives the coils their grounds to fire the sparkplugs. The RED wire is common to both ignition coils.

Primary(small wires) side of the coils will read between 1.8 to 3.0 ohms.

Secondary(sparkplug wire ports)side of the coil will read between 10.4K to 15.6K ohms. These ports are wired together, so it makes no difference which is used, as long as the correct coil to sparkplug configuration is followed.

The sparkplug caps should read 5K OHMS(5000), any higher, or a reading of infinity means new caps should be ordered. The heat and vibration can cause the resistor to fail, requiring cap replacement. When re-installing the old or new sparkplug caps, cut about ¼” off the sparkplug wires for a new un-corroded connection.

Never run supression sparkplug wires with sparkplug caps containing the 5000 ohm resistor, as now there will be two (2) resistances in the ignition coil’s secondary circuit, causing weak and intermittent spark.


To stress the ignition coils, take a hair dryer, heat the coils and see if the ohm readings change from cold to hot . If they do, it’s time to buy new coils.
Keep in mind, the wiring is reversed for the 550’s, 650‘s,700’s, and 750‘s, that is the RIGHT coil primary will be two wires, RED and BLACK with the secondary(sparkplugs) going to #1 and #4.

The LEFT coils primary wiring would be again two wires, RED and GREEN, with the secondary(sparkplugs) going to #2 and #3.

An indication of black and sooty sparkplugs may not mean a carb or carbs are in need of cleaning, but may mean the input voltage is low.

When checking the input voltage to the ignition coils, first have a fully charged battery, and the using a multimeter, set it up to measure VDC(Volts, Direct Current), range of 20.

Put the RED probe from the multimeter on the same terminal that either a RED wire or ones that’s RED with YELLOW stripe, and the BLACK probe on either a good frame/Earth ground or the battery Negative(-) terminal/post.

Depending on the motorcycles current draw( lighting, and other high amp needs) the reading might be 10 volts or more, but if the reading is down around 8 volts or less, this indicates a corrosion or wiring problem needs correcting to improve input voltage to the coils.

These engines have what is known as a “Wasted Spark” that is, a sparkplug will fire during an exhaust stroke. It does no damage and many other motorcycle engines have this design.


And:

Ignition Coils And Sparkplug Wire Choices

What came with the bike, were ignition coils that even when new were marginal, add years of cooking under the tank in the stop and go traffic, and the coils will probably fail when hot.

Replacement coils can be bought at www.z1enterprises.com I believe “Emgo” is the brand. They also carry the popular Dyna 2.2 and 3 ohm coils, along with replacement sparkplug wires.

Now, you have a choice on sparkplug wires:

1.Copper plug wires with no supression caps (the best choice, but will produce audio noise on Radio’s and TV’s). Not only do the copper core wires deliver better spark, they will also deliver a much longer lifespan - carbon core wires are prone to erratic spark delivery and early breakdown, & short lifespan.

2.Copper plug wires with supression caps (a built in 5000 ohm resistor, that can sometimes fail, like what came with the bike).

3.Copper plug wires with no supression caps, but using resistor plugs(the “R” in the plug number).

4.Supression plug wires with no supression caps.

NEVER use resistor plugs combined with supression caps along with supression plug wires, as now there will be two (2) sources of resistance in the secondary windings of the ignition coils, greatly reducing the spark energy.

Another choice is the Accel 3 ohm coils, with a similar, primary(small wire)electrical connection, using ring terminals as the Dyna ignition coils do. Whatever brand of coil you go with, make sure the primary wires will clear the mounting hardware, as the spacers come awfully close, possibly blowing a fuse. Some riders have replaced the metal spacers with non conductive Nylon spacers, reducing the chance of an electrical problem.

7mm sparkplug wires will fit the stock ignition coils(if they have replaceable wires, indicated by screw off caps on the coils with ridges). The sparkplug wires fit into a port with a brass ”Stinger” that goes into the sparkplug wire or lead(the Brit’s. Canadians, and other countries call the sparkplug wires (“High Tension Leads”).

1982 GPZ1100 B2
General Dynamics/Convair 1983-1993
GLCM BGM-109 Tomahawk, AGM-129A Advanced Cruise Missile (ACM)

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26 Oct 2012 19:52 #555925 by KZB2 650
Replied by KZB2 650 on topic Green Dyna coils and Ohms.
7mm Beldon non resistor silicone wires that are getting up there in age but show 3.8 ohms when my meter is held from end to end on all 4. Not sure that the right way to check em?

If one was bad would it effect the other 3 too ?

1978 KZ650 b-2
700cc Wiseco kit 10 to 1.
1980 KZ750 cam, ape springs, stock clutch/ Barnett springs.
Vance and Hines Header w/ comp baffle and Ape pods, Dyna S and green coils, copper wires.
29MM smooth bores W/ 17.5 pilots, 0-6s and 117.5 main
16/42 gearing X ring chain and alum rear JT sprocket.

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26 Oct 2012 20:00 #555929 by KZB2 650
Replied by KZB2 650 on topic Green Dyna coils and Ohms.
Thanks Mfolks will read it in more depth soon. Check out the 114k to 118 reading I was getting off the plug wires on the 1/4 coil and let me know if this is (was) :( way to high.

1978 KZ650 b-2
700cc Wiseco kit 10 to 1.
1980 KZ750 cam, ape springs, stock clutch/ Barnett springs.
Vance and Hines Header w/ comp baffle and Ape pods, Dyna S and green coils, copper wires.
29MM smooth bores W/ 17.5 pilots, 0-6s and 117.5 main
16/42 gearing X ring chain and alum rear JT sprocket.

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26 Oct 2012 20:03 #555930 by MFolks
Replied by MFolks on topic Green Dyna coils and Ohms.
I'd replace all 4 sparkplug wires too.Dyna makes a good set, make sure to get the copper wired type, and not the carbon string types, as they can be short lived.

I'd imagine your bike has the "Wasted Spark" ignition firing like other Kawasaki's do(it fires on the exhaust stroke). How old are your ignition coils? If original to the bike, your coils are probably beyond their seviceable life & need replacement.

1982 GPZ1100 B2
General Dynamics/Convair 1983-1993
GLCM BGM-109 Tomahawk, AGM-129A Advanced Cruise Missile (ACM)

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26 Oct 2012 20:07 #555931 by MFolks
Replied by MFolks on topic Green Dyna coils and Ohms.
I suspect your ignition coils are breaking down, making for weak to non exisitant spark. The primary side can read 3 ohms or less(sometimes higher if you have points), but I think your secondary side is reading too high, making for weak spark....

1982 GPZ1100 B2
General Dynamics/Convair 1983-1993
GLCM BGM-109 Tomahawk, AGM-129A Advanced Cruise Missile (ACM)

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26 Oct 2012 20:22 #555932 by KZB2 650
Replied by KZB2 650 on topic Green Dyna coils and Ohms.
Well I will admit they were bought in 82 and have been put away since 06 so they defently were going to be replaced only next year after the tire and the chain and sprokets and......

If a new set cures my ills it will defently help the major mistake I made thats for sure. Will pick up the wires too. Defently copper.

1978 KZ650 b-2
700cc Wiseco kit 10 to 1.
1980 KZ750 cam, ape springs, stock clutch/ Barnett springs.
Vance and Hines Header w/ comp baffle and Ape pods, Dyna S and green coils, copper wires.
29MM smooth bores W/ 17.5 pilots, 0-6s and 117.5 main
16/42 gearing X ring chain and alum rear JT sprocket.

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26 Oct 2012 23:12 #555952 by loudhvx
Replied by loudhvx on topic Green Dyna coils and Ohms.
Touching one of the terminals to ground shouldn't cause the coil to short out.Is there a chance that tightening up the bracket caused the bracket or bolt to touch the terminal screw? That is very common with Dyna coils, and will show up as a shorted coil, but is really just due to the coil being grounded.

By the way, don't turn on the ignition until after you check closely. If it is shorted to ground, you might blow a fuse.

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26 Oct 2012 23:55 #555960 by KZB2 650
Replied by KZB2 650 on topic Green Dyna coils and Ohms.

loudhvx wrote: Touching one of the terminals to ground shouldn't cause the coil to short out.Is there a chance that tightening up the bracket caused the bracket or bolt to touch the terminal screw? That is very common with Dyna coils, and will show up as a shorted coil, but is really just due to the coil being grounded.

By the way, don't turn on the ignition until after you check closely. If it is shorted to ground, you might blow a fuse.


This is great news, no I just touched the screw a second with the socket I used and there is a nice gap inbetween the post and terminal. Maybe the coil did deside to go right after that with the high ohm reading and all.

1978 KZ650 b-2
700cc Wiseco kit 10 to 1.
1980 KZ750 cam, ape springs, stock clutch/ Barnett springs.
Vance and Hines Header w/ comp baffle and Ape pods, Dyna S and green coils, copper wires.
29MM smooth bores W/ 17.5 pilots, 0-6s and 117.5 main
16/42 gearing X ring chain and alum rear JT sprocket.

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27 Oct 2012 00:18 #555965 by Patton
Replied by Patton on topic Green Dyna coils and Ohms.



Ohm-check secondary loop:


May be tested between plug caps with caps in place, and allow for additional resistance within the caps themselves if the caps are resistor style.

Good Fortune! :)

1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD
Attachments:

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27 Oct 2012 11:04 #556003 by KZB2 650
Replied by KZB2 650 on topic Green Dyna coils and Ohms.
Thanks Patton, as far as I know the wires I have are copper cored with no suppresion caps. I have been getting the same readings through the wires or directly into the coils for the secondary reading.

Still getting the 14 .4 out of the good one 2/3 (although its closer to 14.2 today?) and with wires in the coil or measuring directly into the coil nothing out of the 1/4 still. Even borrowed my dads meter and am getting the same results.

Was getting the same high reading out of 1/4 (114 to 118k) with the plug wires in and out before it went to zero too.

1978 KZ650 b-2
700cc Wiseco kit 10 to 1.
1980 KZ750 cam, ape springs, stock clutch/ Barnett springs.
Vance and Hines Header w/ comp baffle and Ape pods, Dyna S and green coils, copper wires.
29MM smooth bores W/ 17.5 pilots, 0-6s and 117.5 main
16/42 gearing X ring chain and alum rear JT sprocket.

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