No spark issues

Hi...new to the forum, been lurking around here since I bought my bike about a month ago, a 78 KZ650. Looking to get a build thread started soon, but ran into a little issue. So here goes:

Replaced handlebars, along with battery, bike ran fine afterwards. Removed headlight assembly and front turn signals, being careful to plug harnesses back correctly. Also replaced the brake lever. A few days later attempted to start it, nothing! Pulled a plug, no spark. Checked the coil, and with ignition on, and kill switch set to "run", I have power at the coil. Coils are warm to the touch. Notice that with ignition on, horn doesn't work, even though it worked when engine was running last. Strange.

So, no spark, warm coil, and the only thing I did since the last time it ran a week ago was to remove the headlight assembly/turn signals.

I don't have an ohmmeter, but I cannot imagine that much has changed since the last time I worked on the bike...any thoughts or recommendations???

Is ignition "Points" or "Dyna-S" or what?

If Dyna-S, is the red wire providing battery voltage to the Dyna-S?
Sometimes it comes loose where spliced into harness.

Good Fortune!

Just pulled off the points cover (yes it is points), and with ignition on, I have power at both condensors depending upon the position of the points... so why no spark?? And should my coils be fairly warm with the ignition on? When I got the bike, the battery was dead as could be, and now that I have replaced the battery, it seems these problems have arisen...

Just seems odd that it worked just fine a few days ago, and now nothing. Could it be some type of wiring issue related to me removing headlight assembly?

Thanks for your help!

Troy

kawa650kz wrote: ...have power at the coil....

Does this mean full battery voltage is being received at each of the two ignition coils?










May be envisioned as follows for each ignition coil:

Battery+ voltage attaches to coil primary terminal, travels through the coil's internal primary windings, exits from the coil's other terminal, travels through the signal/trigger wire to the points, and through closed points to ground.
While points are closed, the grounded coil is charging.

Opening of the points (separation of the contacts) is the event that causes the coil to fire through the secondary loop.

With an unbroken secondary loop (including both plugs), and battery+ being furnished through the coil's primary winding to ground, interruption of the ground should cause both plugs to spark.

Seems unusual that both independent secondary loops would crap out simultaneously. Or that both coils would simultaneously fail.

Is it for certain that both coils are receiving full battery voltage, and that there is no spark on any of the four plugs?

Good Fortune!

If you get *nothing* when you try and start it is it your starter? I had a similar problem after having my bike worked on, start button up and quit. I was able to start it by turning the ignition on and shorting the starter solenoid under the left side cover with a (insulated handle) screwdriver (I'm not recommending this). Later I discovered there's a black wire that goes under the tank from the start button to the starter lockout switch connected to the clutch. The bullet connector came apart when the tank was put back on. It's a tight fit on my bike. I reconnected it and my starter was back. Might you have loosened the same wire when removing the headlight? Or did you take the tank off?

The fact of having battery power being received at both coils is perplexing.

Maybe the new battery has failed? Does it have enough power to spin over the engine with the electric starter, while keeping a bright high beam?

As known, an almost dead battery may register 12 volts.

Good Fortune!

Thanks for the replies...

Yes, there is battery power to BOTH coils...and power coming both from the black and green wires at points (depending upon crank position obviously). I cleaned the points, cleaned the plugs, trimmed about 1/4" off the coil wire and put it tightly back onto the plug connector... pulled a plug from both sides of the engine, shut off the garage lights, and when I kick it over, I get no spark at either plug. I would have been able to see even a week spark in near darkness.

My plugs were a little black (rich), but after cleaning them I think I should see SOME spark. Next I am going to try buying new plugs. Just very perplexed.

Starter motor is stripped, it will turn the engine over for a second or so then it starts spinning, with a nice nasty noise to go along. Ha! Has been that way since I got it. But it has always kicked over fine, even with the dead battery. Once the battery was replaced, I ran it for about 1/2 hour, shut it down, put it in the garage. Removed the headlight and front turn signals.

When I came out a few days later, discovered that I had left the ignition switched on, battery was dead. So I recharged the battery, and now I have nothing. Is it possible that when I left the ignition on with the new battery that I burned out the coils?? That is where I am going right now...

kawa650kz wrote: ...came out a few days later, discovered that I had left the ignition switched on, battery was dead. So I recharged the battery, and now I have nothing. Is it possible that when I left the ignition on with the new battery that I burned out the coils?? That is where I am going right now...

Yes, I think the coils are history. :pinch:
And would explain the symptoms of no spark on any plug.
Am thinking both sets of points must have been closed.

If these were the original stock coils, they likely needed replacing anyhow, especially the old plug wires.

Would check Z1 Enterprises for replacement aftermarket coils and Dyna solid core plug wires.

www.z1enterprises.com/searchresult.aspx?All=True&KeyWords=coil

Perhaps consider:
www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=2857
www.z1enterprises.com/SearchResult.aspx?...eyWords=plug%20wires

The best option, imo, would be Dyna-S ignition (replace points), a pair of Dyna 3 ohm green coils, and Dyna solid core spark plug wires.

Good Fortune!

Just for fun, could ohm-test the coils' primary and secondary windings.

Dyna spark plug wires have the caps already built in, so the separate stock caps are no longer required.

Good Fortune!

Doh! yeah dont leave power on to the coils by leaving your key on the "on" position.

Whenever my coils fried I noticed I got only like .5 volts on the wires coming to the points from the coils. Z1 has some pretty cheap emgos. be sure to get the right Ohms if you get new ones.

Thanks again for the replies...will be ordering new coils,if that doesn't fix the problem I am gonna scratch my eyes out. But after thinking it through logically, and reading your replies, I think it is pretty much a definite that the coils need to be replaced... will update and post some pics once I get the new coils...