1982 Kawasaki 750 Spectre weak/intermittent spark

I made a post in engine because i thought it was an engine problem. Compression is 180, valve shims recently done all in spec, motor is getting gas. The battery is charged. I did resistance testing on the coils and pick up coils and both are good. I tried testing the ignitor and everytime i went to do a resistance test everything was open, nothing had resistance. I searched and could not find the topic where you can make your own or there is another you can wire in. An oem is about $200 and i dont wanna spend that much. I wanna know if anyone else has an opinion on why the spark isnt there and how to get a cheap ignitor aside from ebay. Thanks for any help.

The man who designed this replacement has one for the twins too, just explore the website:
home.comcast.net/~loudgpz/GPZweb/Ignition/GPZgmHEImod.html

I will check out the link. Thank you. Are there ignitors from any other bike tat would work? Or does anyone have any other plans on how to check the ignitor, the book is really vague on how to check it. I just wanna make sure that its the ignitor and not something else.

What's the difference between igniters?
Does anyone know the differences between KZ igniters? I see different part numbers for igniters on the 650 models, yet I have adapted one from a 750-4 to my bike that works just fine.

I would guess a twin igniter won't work on a four? And I know some igniters may have different length wiring and plug ends that could make it a different part number; but as far as what happens inside the igniter, the electrical part...what's the difference?

Thanks

By OKC_Kent.Report
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loudhvx (User)

Re:What's the difference between igniters?
The only difference is on the later models the timing advance was electronic rather than mechanical.

There is also a possibility that the '79 (KZ1000 only?) igniters can't handle quite as much current as the '80 and later igniters. Those early ones look slightly different too.

mtkawboy

Re:What's the difference between igniters?

If you look at the identity numbers on your igniter box , they should read 21119-1069. This stock igniter box delivers 40 degrees full advance @ 3,600 rpm. I am running a igniter box # 21119-1165 from a 1986/87 1000R Ninja in my street bike for the past 5 years. This box plugs right into the stock terminals and has 35 degrees full advance @ 3,500 rpm and a rpm limiter at 10,700 rpm. The slight decrease in advance makes the bike more linear through out the rpm range and allows for the same performance as the stock igniter. The stock valve train will easily run to 11,000 rpm and this limiter (10,700)
There must be differences in the advance on various models. These are for a GPZ750 I found on a site on drag racing one


Help, need replacement IC Igniter or GM substitute(From the www.kzrider.com website)

So, new guy here. I just picked up an '81 kz1000 ltd I need some help finding a good igniter for cheap or free. I found the write-up of the GM HEI Igniter Substitute, but according to the write up, it is not the same as the p/n 21119-1030 that came from my bike. does anyone know how to make the GM HEI Igniter Substitute for the bike I have?

please help I’d like to get the bike on the rode as soon as possible. thanks.

thanks for the reply. do you know if the GM HEI mod will work on this bike? I really want to get it running, but I don't want to spend $100 on a used igniter off ebay.

Please forgive the question, but is it an absolute certainty that the existing igniter is dead?

OEM KZ electronic ignition with igniter is an excellent system.

Sorry, I don't know about the GM HEI Igniter Substitute for your bike or any headaches about the conversion.

My preference would be to apply replacement part money toward a new Dyna-S ignition, which as known is a self-contained unit under the points cover, eliminates needing the igniter, and is quick and easy to install, relatively long-lasting, and offers excellent performance enjoyed by many riders.

OEM coils (used with the igniter) are probably less than 3 ohms, so would need to add a suitable resistor for continued use of OEM coils with Dyna-S ignition.

While at it, would spring for the green Dyna coils and solid core spark plug wires (delivered with pre-fitted caps).
Z1E also lists an alternate very inexpensive coil pair suitable for Dyna-S ignition.
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I’ve checked and double-checked the igniter per my clymer manual and it is bad according to the manual. the dyna ignition sounds great but is way out of my budget at the time.

If the part you have is superseded by the above listing, then the HEI mod will work. The HEI mod allows you to retain the variable dwell characteristics of the stock unit, and actually improves on it. This makes the bike more efficient on electrical power.

The Dyna S uses way more power through a fixed, and over-extended dwell. You would have to get new coils with the Dyna S, since it is not rated to handle the stock Kawasaki electronic ignition.

It is important to know for sure that the pickups are good. Have you ohmed them out?
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HEI mod works! my bike is now a runner and it runs pretty dang good for sitting for 5 years in some guys shed. still needs some fine tuning like valve adjustment and carbs synched, but i'm prety happy to hear it run. thanks to all that helped!
loudhvx (User)
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Glad to hear it's running!
What is important to know about this mod, is to stay with the OEM stile module. Do not start using the High performance modules. The Hi-Po modules suck up quite a bit more Amperage. I also like to use a single 1N5408 Diode and not the two in series. By putting two diodes in series you handle double the voltage. The 1N5408 handles 3 Amps @ 1.0KV The DR100 module is about the best one you can use. Also make sure that you mount the units onto a good heatsink with thermal(heatsink compound).



loudhvx (User)

I'm not sure why you would want to use the 1n5408. It won't provide as high of a bias voltage. According to the data sheet it's about .6v at .01amp. That may make starting more difficult if the engine doesn't crank quickly.

The R1 resistor limits the current to less than .02 amp, so voltage limits and current handling in the diode are not really important. The point of the two diodes in series are just to create a 1.2 to 1.4v drop as a reference voltage for the pickups to control the HEI properly. It doesn't handle any high power or voltage.

The write up is here with notes on how the systems (KZ and HEI) function. The HEI notes explain why the need for the 1.4v reference.

(BTW, I chose those diodes, not for their power, or current, I chose them because they are cheap and available and fairly standard across many manufacturers.)

And you are correct, it would be best to stick with the cheap OEM replacement HEI modules. I don't know what will happen with high-performance versions of the modules. Any performance enhancement shouldn't be necessary for firing two cylinders of a motorcycle. For an 8-cyl car, maybe...
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otakar wrote:

There is another little trick that can be used for bikes that have high compression. That is, to use a 5-pin Wells DR137 module. The 5th pin can be grounded during starting, for an easier start. It retards the module by 10*, and puts less stress on the starter. You MIGHT even be able to use it for econo-cruse, but that I am not sure about.

This procedure will help in troubleshooting(taken from a conversation with Loudhvx)

Troubleshooting IC Igniter & Pickup(Pulsing) Coils

On a 4 cylinder, you can use the swapping method to identify exactly what part is bad.

I see you swapped the plug wires and the coil wires. So did the problem stay with the green coil wire? Or did it move to the black coil wire?

(I assume you are using the tach to determine which coil wire (green or black) is firing intermittently.)

If it is always the green coil wire, then it's the green 2/3 circuit in the igniter, or it's the yellow/red pickup.

To determine which, you would have to make some jumpers and jumper the pickup wires to the igniter. Black pickup wire jumps to yellow igniter wire, and yellow pickup wire jumps to black igniter wire. Blue pickup wire jumps to red igniter wire, and red pickup wire jumps to blue igniter wire.

Then, you have to pull off the timing plate, and remove the timing rotor. You do this by advancing it, then pulling it off (after you remove the small bolt holding it on). Don't try to turn the big nut. It's actually not a nut, but is just keyed to the advancer hub to turn the crank. Be careful with the bolts on the advancer, they have a history of getting messed up.

Re-install the advancer pointer 180 degrees out from where it started. (Normally, originally, the pointer pointed toward the "TEC" logo.) You do this by holding the advancer arms open, then slide the pointer sleeve over the advancer hub. (Just the opposite of what you did to remove it.) (Hope you have 3 hands. )

Now, if the problem of the flakey tach stays on the green coil wire, it is the igniter that is bad. If it is on the black coil wire, the problem is the red/yellow pickup.

A twin ignitor can't run a four because a four has dual coils so the ignitor has to have dual output driver channels.