Replacing bushings/seal in 83 1100 Spectre

I tore apart the starter on my 83 1100 Spectre today. I have a rebuild kit and am wondering if replacing the bushings are necessary. There is no seperate part number for them, therefore are they even replaceable without destroying the case? Also the seal on one end seems in good shape, so I m assuming it can stay also.

Has anyone replaced any of these parts when rebuilding? (the seal and the bushings) I also noticed I only got one bushing and one needle bearing in the rebuild kit instead of two bushings. Is this an upgrade?

Thanks,eh?

Brad

Maybe post a picture of the parts, or the kit part # as it can most likely be found and referenced.
I did the starter on my 82 1000 with a kit from Z1. I can;t remember any needle bearing. But since the gear end is where the load would be greatest, I would install it on that end. 4 brush starter kit right?

Yes, 4 brush starter. All the parts got used except for the bushing and bearing. The bushings were in great shape, no scarring and were tight.

I just finished the reassembly,tested it out of the bike and will report back. I was having hot start issues, so hopefully this will solve it. If not, MFolks suggested rebuilding the starter clutch. We will find out later today. I have a nice new Yuasa battery to go in, also.

The starter rebuild went well. It worked great out, worked great installed,spun the bike over like it never spun before. I did install the new battery. After a ride,when it was good and hot, I rode home and shut it off. Here is where things got weird.

It started acting like it did before the rebuild and new battery. I thought I ll let it cool off and see what happens. The next day, I tried it again, and it acted like the battery was dead. Today, I checked the new and old batteries for volts,and both were kickin out 12V. Then I took the starter back out, and checked the voltage at the cable that attaches to the starter. Again, a solid 12V. I hooked up the starter and hit the button and it spun just fine. I then reinstalled the starter, switched back to my new battery (I threw the old one in there to see if there was any difference in cranking power) and the same issue. Click like the battery is dead.

I'm thinking the starter clutch needs looking at, but it's just a guess. Anyone else had anything similar happen with thier starting system?

Thanks!

Brad

Could be the starter clutch, but I'd check the battery ground connection first. If there's any corrosion between the terminal and the crankcase, the resistance will increase when heated up. For that matter, clean the connections on your solenoid too.

Well you could have a bad starter solenoid, or poor battery cable connections.
Try at the solenoid two large cable posts, jump them with a solid metal object, like a socket extension, and see if the starter now spins. If not then check both the + and - battery cables. From the Battery +, to the solenoid, then solenoid to starter. Then the - cable from battery to rear of engine block. All must be clean, and tight, no corrosion. If you hear an audible Click coming from the solenoid when trying to start it, then it sounds like the energizing circuit is working but you may still have bad contacts inside. So if it spins when bridging the two big posts, but still just clicks when trying to start normally, all battery connections check out, then bad solenoid internal contacts.

I tested the starter out of the bike and grounded to the engine. I held the starter on the engine for a good ground and my wife pulled in the clutch lever and hit the button. It spun over just fine,so I believe that there is something "mechanical" other than "electrical" locking it up. I will tear the cover off today for a peek. I looked up a few parts that may be suspected and the prices last night. I m guessing somewhere around $150.

While it could well be a mechanical issue, keep in mind that the starter under Free Spin won't pull anywhere near the current/ Amps of a loaded one. Under load it may lose the electrical connection.

Good point. I shall look into that further.

Also what does it do with a battery charger left on it at low setting for at least 4 hours? 2 Amp low charge rate. Also check with your meter what the battery voltage is when you are attempting to Start the bike, as this will tell you if there is still current stored in the cells. If you measured 12. something, then hit the Starter and it drops way off, like less than 10v, try with the slow charge again. Might be a Charging system issue. Check that when running across the Batt @ 4k RP. Should be 14v or so with everything on.

update:

I connected the starter directly to the battery in my Jeep. Ran the positive jumper to the cable end then grounded the other cable. Same thing happened,nothing but a click. I tried it quickly 3 times, uninstalled the starter, and, again, it spun just fine out of the bike.

I took the alternator cover off for a look. Everything looked good..nice and clean and the idler had no slop in its seat.

I have one question: if the starter clutch is bad, does it not do the opposite of what I have happening..spinning without the engine turning over?

Thanks again for your help.

Brad

Yes normally if the starter clutch fails, the engine will not spin, just the starter. This may be an intermittent problem first, with it starting to slip, or the 3 bolts that hold the gear to the rotor can fall out.
Electrically, when you tried your car battery, did you bypass the solenoid by jumping across the two large posts? Have you made sure of both the positive and negative connections at Both ends of each cable? There are three cables, the negative goes from the battery to the rear of the engine block. This must be clean and tight. Then a positive cable from the battery to the starter Solenoid. Then the third from the solenoid to the starter motor. Check each end, as these are what supplies the starter with the Current to operate under load.

When you put the rebuild kit in the starter, did you check the Commutator for shorts and opens? Clean it? Its where the brushes ride, those contacts for the windings. Any short or open can cause it to not operate. Or just dirty contact.