run's rough / cut's out when warmed up

  • IowaKZ
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23 Oct 2010 13:21 #408493 by IowaKZ
Hey, hi guys. I think that this is an electrical problem.

I have a '80 kz1000 G1 and I am still running it with the fuel injection.

I have been having trouble for a while with my battery charging and I finally figured out that it is the stator. I ordered one and installed it today. It seems to be working well because it is running between 12 and 13 vdc at idle. after a short ride it brought the battery voltage (when off) up from 9.5 to just over 11. I figure it is working well.

Now the problem is that it starts and idles fine, but when it gets warmed up and I start to ride it cuts out as I increase the RPMs. I let it cool down for 10 minutes and rode it for maybe 1 minute and it started running rough again.

I am wondering if there is something wrong with my rectifier? someone told me that that can damage a stator? My book tells me how to check for that, but it's not very clear. any tips for this?

My concern is that this is the efi system. But others have said, when they go, they go. no running rough.

If it's not the rectifier, any other thoughts? I don't think it's bad gas, because it will idle fine. it just doesn't want to run at anything above an idle. when I went for a ride, i never went over 4k rpm.

sorry for the long post. i've been working on this for a while and I thought I had it solved with the stator, now it looks like there is another problem too.....

1980 G1 Classic
Bettendorf, Iowa

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23 Oct 2010 14:10 #408512 by MFolks
Replied by MFolks on topic run's rough / cut's out when warmed up
Two questions;

1.Adjusted the valve clearances? Having tight valves affects engine performance.

2.Original ignition coils? I'd replace them with a set either from Accel or Dyna and replace the sparkplug wires to.

Alternator Testing For the Older 4’s(Z1’s,Kz 900’s, Kz1000’s,Kz1100’s and GPz1100’s).

To check to see if the alternator is working you need to follow these simple steps:

1. Fully charge the battery as this will be the power source during this test.

2. Disconnect the Regulator/Rectifier at the plug that has the six wires in it.

3. Start the engine and let it warm to operating temperature.

4. If you're worried about overheating, position a large fan for cooling the engine.

5. After the engine has reached operating temperature, have a helper assist you, and using a multi-meter, read the output at the three yellow wires (or the alternator output wires)at the disconnected connector.

6. Raise the engine speed to 4000 rpm, and see what the three YELLOW wire combinations(or any alternator output wires) are(1-3, 2-3 & 1-2). The output will be around 50 Volts A.C.(Alternating Current). BE CAREFUL, AS THERE IS A SHOCK HAZARD HERE!!



7. If any of the combinations are low or non-existent, the stator(wire windings) are bad and must be replaced.
Some of the older Z1’s and KZ900’s were phase sensitive, so check the wire colors carefully.

8. With the engine off,use an OHMETER, Checking the three wire combinations again, looking for a reading of 0.36 - 0.54 OHMS. If the readings are above or below, the stator may be bad and need replacement. Also check from any of the three YELLOW wires to ground, this will show if arcing took place.

9. Before ordering a new stator, check the connections from the stator as there are electrical "Bullet" connectors that may be damaged or dirty.
Inspect the wiring for signs of shorting or overheating too. www.z1enterprises.com sells replacement rubber grommets for the alternator output wiring, they get hard and could leak oil after a while.

10. Check the wiring coming out of the grommet as there have been situations where the wires were damaged causing a short(I.E. twisted together with insulation damage).

11. The sprocket cover will have to be removed to access the electrical connectors coming from the alternator, the left foot peg assembly and shifting lever will have to come off also.


Alternator Stator Replacement On the Older 4’s
Source for replacement Stators

A. www.electrosport.com (They have a trouble shooting page)
B. www.customrewind.com
C. www.rmstator.com
D. www.ricksmotorsportselectrics.com
E. www.regulatorrectifier.com

1. If by testing either by checking the output voltage from the stator or by using and ohmmeter for resistance and the stator is determined to be bad, replacing the stator is not a difficult job.

2. The motorcycle owner should have on hand a replacement alternator gasket as it will tear on removal and leak if reused.

3. Put the bike on the center stand if possible and lean it to the right to minimize the oil volume that could come out when the alternator cover is removed.

4. Have selection of Metric wrenches and sockets along with Metric Allen keys to be able to accomplish this repair. ¼" and 3/8" ratchets and extensions may be needed along with Allen bits.

5. Remove the gear shift lever, the sprocket cover and possibly the left foot peg assembly.

6. A catch pan for what little oil will be lost should be positioned under the alternator on the left side. Newspapers will soak up any oil lost or some kitty litter will do as an absorbent.

7. Remove the alternator cover fasteners, some bikes use a socket head cap screw(Allen type) and others use the Phillips head type, the #3 screwdriver bit fits best for those. Use a small dish or can to collect the removed fasteners from the parts to prevent loss/damage.

8. The alternator stator is secured to the inside of the cover usually with three Allen headed bolts, Some bikes may have Torx style fasteners, Remove them and disconnect the three yellow wires that have bullet connectors on them from the bundled wires inside the sprocket cover.

9. If your bike has some color other than yellow for the alternator output wires, make note of what goes where as the older Kawasaki’s were phase sensitive in regard to the regulator/rectifiers.

10. When installing the replacement stator, clock or position the output wires and grommet so they fit into the small port under the alternator cover without being pinched or damaged.

11. Tighten the three Allen or Torx fasteners, securing the replacement stator to the cover. I like using the BLUE Loctite # 242 for hardware that can be removed with hand tools.

12. Remove the old gasket from the mating surfaces of the alternator cover and engine case by scraping with a piece of sharpened plastic like Lexan or Plexi-glass as these will not gouge the soft Aluminum Cases. Avoid using a metal gasket scraper for this.

13. Position the alternator cover, checking for pinched wiring and install the fasteners with a little silver anti-seize on the threads, tightening to the correct torque.

14. Connect up the output wires to the mating female bullet connectors and while you’re in there, check the routing of the wire bundle that runs through there.

15. Inspect for signs of heat damage to the wire insulation and vibration damage too.

16. The side stand switch, neutral switch, and oil pressure switch wiring are all bundled with the alternator output wiring running above and behind the engine output sprocket. This bundle runs in a channel as it goes up toward the various electrical connections.

17. The regulator/rectifier plug on the 80’s bikes usually has six wires in it:

A. One (1)WHITE with RED stripe, this is the bikes main power wire usually 12 gauge in size.

B. One(1) smaller Brown wire, probably 18 gauge or so, the voltage sense wire for the regulator/rectifier, helps keeping it from overcharging the battery.

C. One(1) BLACK with YELLOW stripe wire, part of the ground circuits, maybe 16 gauge in size.

D. Three(3) YELLOW wires, maybe 14 gauge in size, the alternator output wires going to the regulator/rectifier which converts the Alternating Current(A.C.) to Direct Current(D.C.) using rectification, producing the power to run the motorcycle and charge the battery.

18. Reinstall the sprocket cover, again checking for pinched wires before tightening. Install the shifter on it’s splined shaft checking for proper location, and the left side foot peg assembly.

19. Except for the minor oil spill and reluctant fasteners, it’s not a very difficult job to do.

1982 GPZ1100 B2
General Dynamics/Convair 1983-1993
GLCM BGM-109 Tomahawk, AGM-129A Advanced Cruise Missile (ACM)

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  • TeK9iNe
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23 Oct 2010 15:08 #408546 by TeK9iNe
Replied by TeK9iNe on topic run's rough / cut's out when warmed up
If the battery is charging at less than 14v when holding the bike above 3500rpm, then either the battery is dead, the rectifier/regulator unit is worn out, or stator is dead/grounding.

A battery that measures less than 12 volts after sitting overnight (after being charged/filled properly), is a dead battery. Dont let ANYBODY tell you otherwise. Anything more than 3 years old that hasnt been diligently maintained should be replaced if it does not exibit excellent condition.

If you run with a battery that doesnt hold its own properly, it can fry the rectifier/regulator, and burn the stator up as well.

Clean all electrical contacts with a good cleaner/scrubbing, and make sure they are very shiney and tight when re-assembling.

B)

Motorcycle Shop Owner/Operator

79 Kawie Z1000 LTD
81 Kawie Z1000 CSR
83 Honda VT750C A
85 Kawie GPZ900 A2
86 Zukie GS1150 EG
93 Yamie XV1100 E
Lucky to have rolled many old bikes through my doors ;)

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  • IowaKZ
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23 Oct 2010 15:58 #408580 by IowaKZ
Replied by IowaKZ on topic run's rough / cut's out when warmed up
Thanks Guys, MFolks, I saw that write up in another thread and I think I'm good through the stator part. It's the regulator/rectifier part I'm fuzzy on.

TeK, it's a new battery, but in reading your post, i'm wondering if I don't have a fried rectifier. I was running with a bad stator and low battery for a while. it was not producing enough current to blink the signal lights.

I'll try to test the rectifier again. I tried once, but I don't think I did it right. the book I have is vague on how to do it (plus I'm not exactly an electronics whiz).

I'll keep trying

thanks.

1980 G1 Classic
Bettendorf, Iowa

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