No Start Condition... after heavy rain.

Right, so after getting back from a nice ride, heading in early because of what appeared to be some pretty ominous weather on the horizon, I find that my (granted, very inexpensive) bike cover is missing from where I left it.
I imagine one of the multitudes of St. Catharines homeless is currently finding it a very nice way to stay warm and dry in our very frequently precipitous clime.

Anyway, no cover = my poor girl got very heavily rained on for a few hours after I got home.

Now: she won't start. Either she is just angry with me for leaving her out there uncovered, which I understand... Or perhaps there is something slightly more serious that the rain had some say in?

General conditions are:
-started and ran fine on the day immediately before getting wet.
- plugs are in decent shape, and while slightly fouled (still trying to find time to sort out the slightly rich running condition.) I should think they are not the problem.
-fuel is free of water and no blockages in the fuel line, (can see fuel condition through the inline filter.)
-all other electrical seems to be fine: headlights, turn signals, brake lights etc.... no apparent shorts or dicontinuities.
-I put the battery on a tender just in case it was simply a matter of insuffient voltage, but i read 12.8 and action on the starter is good.

So: Before I start pulling apart every wire and connection and losing my mind, does anyone have some advice on where they might start, and which items they would investigate. Electrical is not my forte, although I am familiar enough to do some diagnosis with the help of the manual etc...

Thanks all,

Jon

Pods or points would be my first look. Do you have pods or points??

Do you have fire to the plugs?

Try this:

Starter Solenoid/Motor Checkout Procedure

Some simple steps to determine what is working and what's not:

1.Fully charge and test the battery(most bike shops can load test the battery, and then use a floating ball hydrometer to check specific gravity in the charged cells).

2.Clean all battery terminals of corrosion.

3.Tighten all starting related connections(Positive RED(+) battery terminal, Negative BLACK(-)terminal) and from the terminal to the engine case. All connections must be clean and tight.

4.Clean the cable from the starter solenoid to the starter motor.

5.Clean and check the "bullet connectors" going to the coil side of the starter solenoid.

6.Try again to start the bike, keep in mind some Kawasaki’s have a clutch interlock to prevent cranking the engine while it’s in gear, so the clutch lever must be squeezed.

7.If no luck, go to step #8

8.Wearing eye protection, bridge with pliers or a screwdriver the two heavy duty(large)terminals on the solenoid. If the bike cranks, your solenoid may be bad.

9. If the starter won’t turn over, one of several things has happened; The starter motor has seized due to brushes binding up, lack of lubrication in the bushings of the motor, the battery is weak , the engine has seized or it could be a combination of any of the above. Some websites for starter motor rebuild kits are:

A. www.mawonline.com/newsite/rick_s_motorsp...-starter_brushes.htm

B. www.cyclewareables.com/pages/street_star...kits/startmtrkit.htm (not sure if the website is still viable)


10.The dealer may want $$$ for a new solenoid, but take your old one along and visit the nearest riding lawn mower shop. They have solenoids for about $15 that with a little work will fit. Be aware that the new solenoid from the lawn mower shop may require a ground wire for it to work.

11. I’d recommend upgrading from the existing battery cables to at least 6 gauge welding cables.
They are available in two colors(RED and BLACK) have more flexibility due to being constructed with finer conductors, and will fit in tighter areas.

12. The welding cable is sold by the foot, so take careful measurements or bring your old cables along. Most battery shops might be able to supply the cable too, so call to find out. The battery shop should be able to crimp/swage on the end of the welding cable the terminal ends or lugs using either a dedicated crimping machine or a tool that looks like a bolt cutter that has special dies to terminate the cable.


The starter solenoid gets it's coil energy from the start button on the right handle bar and the run/stop switch.

The coil is energized,pulling in a metal bar, bridging the heavy duty contacts,letting high current flow from the battery to the starter motor.

When the ignition switch is in the "ON" position,the left handle bar clutch lever is squeezed and the run stop switch to "RUN", the engine should turn over and start.

The starting and ignition are two seperate circuits, so the bike could "Crank" but not start.

More places to look are the fuses and fuse clips, as they can look good but have failed internally.

These older bikes take the AGX sixed fuses in usually 10 and 20 amp sizes.Most good auto stores can get them for you.

Another thought is posssibly one or more connector has moisture in it causing this problem.

Post back for more possibilities..........

Well first off; thanks for the great list of 'things to do' when demons are inhabiting your electrical system.
I will do a rundown of all those soon, and really probably should make sure all is copasetic in the clean contacts and wires division of the bike. (I like the idea of replacing main cables with the 6ga. welding wires, who knows how much internal corrosion there is these 30 year old wires.)

That said, I have power and the bike cranks. The starter occasionally like to make a chattery noise and stop after a few seconds of cranking, but I think that is likely just the result a weak bendix, and a separate problem.

So taking the above advice, I will check the plugs for spark, and see what that says.

And Kawakrice, yeah I DO have pods. I don't know the significance, but am guessing that maybe the need to be more thoroughly dry? Ie, restricting airflow required for startup?

I know just enough about potential startup problems to look for fire/fuel/air as the starting point.

As far as the ignitions system goes, it is points. (For now, although a DYNA might be for next season, as tuition time looms large on the horizon
I assume there is a method in the Kawi Factory Manual for checking the timing vs. point cold, and will have a look unless you have specific advice. I am willing to buy a timing light if that will help me along any.... But wonder if the $30 for a light would be better put towards the Dyna?? Are there many other uses for the light? I suppose for my car...

I will report back with the results from the plug check when I have a few free minutes to do it.

Thanks,

Jon

Old, hard, cracked, worn-out spark plug wires are prone to leaking high intensity voltage from the coil, especially in damp conditions, which impairs sparking at the plugs.

Also, old ignition coils sometimes have hairline cracks allowing moisture intrusion to impair their performance.

May test with engine running in a dark garage, by spraying water mist over the coils and plug wiring, and watch for tell-tale sparks.

Good Fortune!

Eventually, leakage of high intensity voltage, may be felt as a buzzing sensation when a rider's body part contacts a metal part of the bike.

This may happen while riding, for example, when turning the petcock to reserve position.

Good Fortune!

As ignition coils get old, they get tiny cracks in them. As long as they stay dry, they can run for years like that. After a good rainstorm they may instantly be dead.

I've only been stranded once, and that was right after riding in a major rain storm. First one coil cut out and I tried to get home on two cylinders, but the second coil quit after a few miles. I never use old coils on any long distance trip.

The strange thing is your bike was parked. The coils should not have seen much water, if any. Had you ridden in rain in the last days before it quit?

EDIT: oops, I see Patton already covered this, as usual.

The strange thing is your bike was parked. The coils should not have seen much water, if any. Had you ridden in rain in the last days before it quit?

Nope, no riding in the rain for me when I can avoid it. At least around here, when it rains, it doesn't screw around: it rains.

And that said, i tend to agree, I don't think the coils would have gotten too wet. But I won't rule anything out until i have the chance to do some more thorough checking things out. I will have some free time tomorrow morning and will get her out into the sun and see how things look. I know that new coils/wires/DYNA S would be a great improvement over stock, but as with everyone else it always a battle for money for bike vs. eating and keeping a roof over ones' head.

The general plan then will be to pull the wires check plugs for spark. If good, do a static timing adjustment (if ther is such an animal) or whatever is appropriate. Also check to see if the pods are thoroughly dry yet, which after a few days the should be. We'll see.

Thanks for the advice all. I'll be sure to follow this up as things progress.

Jon

If you air filter pods are wet, putting them after removal in a 250 oven will speed up the drying process. If you're afraid of heat, using a wet/dry shop vac to pull the moisture out works too.

I'd avoid using compressed air(except at low pressure) as this can tear the fabric/foam of the filters.

And if you tried to start with wet pods, likely the plugs are fouled now. This happened to my buddy a few weeks ago. After the pods dried, it still wouldn't start. He took out the plugs, hit them with carb cleaner or starting fluid and lit them with a lighter to burn off the cleaner. When he put the plugs back in, the bike started right up on the first kick.

Pods :laugh:

Since you have points I would check for a torn or missing point cover gasket. Water can get in there and corrode the points enough that they need attention. Hence the pods and points