Want to install an Amp Gauge

www.cyclemaxohio.com/inc/sdetail/4231

images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://w...en%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

EDIT: These links are not working at the moment for some reason. Arrgh. Will check again in a bit.

When I come across a bike that has constant charging problems I use a voltage detector that stays on the bike temporarily or permanently.

These are my own design, but you can buy similar products.

single led, adjustable version

3 led version

This one I use on my batteryless bike. IT is needed in case the main capacitor (which replaces the battery) goes bad. It lights up when the capcitance drops out or is too low to stabilize the voltage.
Spike detector for detecting intermittent battery disconnects or failures

One thing that people overlook is the nature of pulsed electricity versus steady DC. Pulsed DC can have strange effects if you assume it is steady DC.

Have you ever hooked up a scope to the AC leads while running?
Have you ever hooked a scope to the battery to see what is actually happening to the voltage on an instantaneous time scale?
A voltmeter only averages what is on the wires. Sometimes you have to see what is happening every instant. Only a scope can do that. I've had a couple bikes come my way that actually needed a scope to see the real problem (instead of replacing part after part).

Here is some info on permanent-magnet charging systems:
home.comcast.net/~loudgpz/GPZweb/GPZAltn...rnatorWaveforms.html

To be very useful, this info requires quite a bit of electrical knowledge. Unfortunately, sometimes electrical problems are more complex than they seem. Without some basic background, most troubleshooting gets down to simply replacing parts. But that doesn't let you know what the real problem is, so you don't know exactly what to look for to see if it's resolved.

Sorry it's been such a huge pain. Hopefully you'll get more trusting if she cooperates for a few years.

By the way, What year 650? Are you using a 77 charging system or 78 and later charge system?

seanof30306 wrote:

I realize it seems kind of farfetched, but look at this:

www.meritline.com/lcd-digital-multimeter...2.aspx?source=fghdac

That is a digital LCD voltmeter/ammeter that sells for 6.70 that I'm pretty sure would take every measurement I spoke of. The only difference is the leads would need to be moved to different points for each measurement. By now, everyone knows I have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to anything electrical (and a whole lot of other things, too), but if you can get all that for under 7 bucks, I have to think there are weatherproof digital LCDs and multi-position switches available, and ammeter and voltmeter guts that could be remote mounted under the seat. All it would take is someone with the knowledge to put it together and market it(for a $$$profit$$$, this IS America, you know) to dummies like me.

Harbor freight sells that meter for about $1.99 when it's on a super-sale. I have about three of them. I use them for the transistor gain measuring feature. It blows my mind that that even exists on such a cheap meter.

There are a couple issues with the meter, though. First is the cheapness. Usually the leads are defective. I toss them and use some leftovers from other meters I've had. Second is the method it uses for measuring AC voltage. It's crude and very innacurate for anything that is not a pure AC sine.

I've seen cheap voltage analyzers for cars. I think Radio Shack had some, but they were around $25 and were not very dashboard friendly.

I still think a voltage indicator is all that is needed along with knowledge of how to read it. If I were you, I'd start with just the simple voltage monitor of some sort. As long as the voltage stays around 14v while riding, the battery can't be getting discharged. As long as the battery is not defective, it should stay charged then.

Also, if the battery gets over 14.6v or so, you have to watch the water level. It loses quite a bit at that voltage on hot days with long highway miles.

wouldnt a voltmeter have to be wired into a terminal that had switched voltage?otherwise wouldnt it stay "on" (registering 12v) all the time?bj

hocbj23 wrote:

wouldnt a voltmeter have to be wired into a terminal that had switched voltage?otherwise wouldnt it stay "on" (registering 12v) all the time?bj

Yes, I should say that the meter is typically on a switched circuit if it's a permanent installation.

For temporary troubleshooting, I go straight to the battery. Just remember to disconnect the battery when you're done for the day.

loudhvx wrote:

EDIT: These links are not working at the moment for some reason. Arrgh. Will check again in a bit.

When I come across a bike that has constant charging problems I use a voltage detector that stays on the bike temporarily or permanently.

These are my own design, but you can buy similar products.

single led, adjustable version

3 led version

This one I use on my batteryless bike. IT is needed in case the main capacitor (which replaces the battery) goes bad. It lights up when the capcitance drops out or is too low to stabilize the voltage.
Spike detector for detecting intermittent battery disconnects or failures

One thing that people overlook is the nature of pulsed electricity versus steady DC. Pulsed DC can have strange effects if you assume it is steady DC.

Have you ever hooked up a scope to the AC leads while running?
Have you ever hooked a scope to the battery to see what is actually happening to the voltage on an instantaneous time scale?
A voltmeter only averages what is on the wires. Sometimes you have to see what is happening every instant. Only a scope can do that. I've had a couple bikes come my way that actually needed a scope to see the real problem (instead of replacing part after part).

Here is some info on permanent-magnet charging systems:
home.comcast.net/~loudgpz/GPZweb/GPZAltn...rnatorWaveforms.html

To be very useful, this info requires quite a bit of electrical knowledge. Unfortunately, sometimes electrical problems are more complex than they seem. Without some basic background, most troubleshooting gets down to simply replacing parts. But that doesn't let you know what the real problem is, so you don't know exactly what to look for to see if it's resolved.

Sorry it's been such a huge pain. Hopefully you'll get more trusting if she cooperates for a few years.

By the way, What year 650? Are you using a 77 charging system or 78 and later charge system?

My bike is a '79 KZ650 B3. I don't know why my sig isn't showing up.

And no, I've never had a scope on it. I've never had access to anyone with the level of knowledge to go that deeply into this. If I did, I think it might have been solved a long time ago.

Looking at your diagrams (and not understanding 99% of them), I'm guessing you prefer the LEDs because of their small size?

I've done a lot of looking, and the closest thing I can see to what you're diagramming is this BATTERY STATUS MONITOR:

www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffyelectrex.htm

It's about halfway down the page, just under the ammeters. It would probably be pretty expensive (relative to the price) to ship it from England, though.

There's a guy on ebay selling a simpler, single mode one. It only comes on when voltage falls below a specific level:

cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...me=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

This guy is making LED ammeters for Honda CBs. It's about 1/3 of the way down the page.

www.cb1100f.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=49965

I really like that ammeter.