Want to install an Amp Gauge

Thanks. I saw that one, and I saved it, but I would prefer a 20 amp or under scale. if nothing else shows up, then that would clearly be the best choice.

The next question is the mounting. I suppose I could use this and find a way:

www.egauges.com/vdo_acce.asp?Subgroup=Campro_Cup&Manf=All

Sigh .... I knew that cigarette plug in was too easy.

I'm curious, though. A number of those say they're merely battery gauges, while that one and several others like it say they're both battery gauges and charging system monitors. In the reviews for that one, one of them says it measures the battery when the bike is not running, and the charging system when it is. is he just mistaken?

No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationAs Mfolks mentioned, there are two categories of classic ammeters.

A full current one has all battery current (except starter) through it. This is a crude type that requires heavy wires to it since all battery current goes through it.

A shunt type uses a calibrated piece of metal to run all of the battery current through it. The metal is calibrated so the voltage on it increases as the current through it increases. It is essentially a very very low resistance resistor. The gauge then simply measures the voltage on the shunt (using small gauge wire) and the gauge is calibrated to convert that voltage to a current reading.

Both types are setup to measure the current into or out of the battery. They don't measure the current in the charging system, only that current to the battery. In order to do that, the ammeter must be able to go positive or negative. Once the battery is fully charged, the ammeter should show near zero most of the time (while cruising).

The ammeter is a complicated way to deermine if the battery is getting charged or not. On a simple system like that on the KZ, theoretically, a voltmeter will essentially tell you the same thing. If the battery voltage is about 13v, the battery is probably breaking even. If it's near 14v, the battery is charging, unless it's fully charged already. This assumes the battery is good. If the battery is defective, then volts or amps won't tell you you are about to get stranded (which really sucks! I feel your pain).

Either way, volts or amps will be very helpful if you can watch it while you are riding.

I bought one of these and it works well, but I never installed it on the bike... only bench tested it. I think Rstnick may have gotten one too. At least it's cheap.

That is pretty cool, although the backside of it looks pretty exposed for a motorcycle. How did you envision mounting it?

I only envisioned it as a temporary fixture while troubleshooting. I figured I'd put it in a soft foam block... maybe just cut a rectangle out of a sponge, then strap it ot the tank somehow.

I've been looking for my test results, but I haven't come across them yet. I recall the thing was pretty accurate. At least the one I tested was. There are several that look almost the same on ebay. You may want to search a little for similar items to see if there is something that suits you better. Make sure to pay close attention to whether it's measuring AC or DC. I remember there were some of each kind, but they look the same.

I think it's a standard panel mount size. Basically it just snaps into a rectangular hole in a plate of metal. You could probably just make a clamp to hold a plate to the handle bar and cut a hole in the plate... not easy, but not impossible, either.

This is a mounting bracket for a Shindy Digital Tachometer, with dimensions of 2.99" x 1.42". You just stick it on.

www.denniskirk.com/jsp/tpl/product.jsp?s...uctId=p408266&mmyId=

Your voltmeter measures 3.11" x 1.69". Pretty close.

Wonder if you could make a simple form around the edges of that voltmeter, coat it with wax or some other releasing agent, then pour in enough slow-curing black epoxy to both cover all of the components on the backside of the meter, and provide a flat mounting surface. You could then mount it on that bracket for the tach.

Would that work?

You know, if it was smaller, you could mount it right into the dash panel. My bike's not here right now, so I can't measure it, but I believe there's room for something about 2" x 1"

Here's a 2.2" one. They say it's the smallest on the market.

www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.36147

[imgsummitracing.com has several 2 1/16" digital voltmeters.

www.summitracing.com/parts/CYB-A000E160N/

Still, if having a digital voltmeter is a good idea, even if it won't do everything I want, that Equus 3721 seems like the simplest approach.

www.iequus.com/Product/Search

It's not the cheapest, but it's far less expensive than mounting an actual gauge in a cup, and it also gives me the option to charge my phone.

Stock 650 alternator is rated at 280 watts, that's 20 amps at 14 volts.

I think that if you're going to get an ammeter you should go with at least 25 amp, or maybe a 30 amp gauge.

And don't wire it so the starter draw goes through it

steell wrote:

Stock 650 alternator is rated at 280 watts, that's 20 amps at 14 volts.

I think that if you're going to get an ammeter you should go with at least 25 amp, or maybe a 30 amp gauge.

And don't wire it so the starter draw goes through it

30 amp it is, then (if I go that way).

Maybe you can help me with this: I read somewhere that you can wire an ammeter two ways. One way reads the output of the charging system, the other way reads the draw from the bike. Is that correct? On a +/- gauge like what's being discussed, Wouldn't it essentially be a composite of the two; the charging system's output minus the bike's draw?

Also, I emailed Autometer about one of their gauges. Their tech emailed me back saying he strongly recommended I not run a non-weatherproof gauge, that with an ammeter, not only would I be risking gauge failure, but it could be dangerous.

Is he correct?

Searching ebay, all of the motorcycle-specific ammeters I see are for old Triumphs and Lee Enfields, etc. I'm guessing there's a reason no one's making an ammeter for newer bikes, or a universal one for any bike.

loudhvx wrote:

Make sure to pay close attention to whether it's measuring AC or DC. I remember there were some of each kind, but they look the same.

AC, DC, ...... whatever

Here in Oklahoma, amps is amps

Yes, you can wire the amp gauge wherever you want. there are typically 3 places you'd set it up.
1. measures the current into or out of the battery.
2. measures the current out of the alternator.
3. measures the current into the bike (ignition lights etc.)

For a permanent installation, you'd use #1. that is how most factory amp gauges are setup on old cars. The reason is a dead battery is the most likely cause of getting you stranded.

#2 and #3 would be for troubleshooting, usually.

A single voltmeter on the battery pretty much tells you all three are ok as long as the voltage is up areound 14v to 14.5v (on a KZ). If the voltage is low, the voltmeter won't tell you what the cause is, but does tell you that your battery will be dead if you ride for too long.

By the same token, an ammeter that was showing a problem would only tell you one bit of info.

In setup #1, if the ammeter shows constantly negative, it tells you the battery is draining, but doesn't tell you if it's because there is too much drain in the bike, or if the charging system is bad.

In setup #2, the ammeter will always be very negative, but won't tell you if the battery is draining or charging. (This is the least useful setup for a permanent setup. It would only be used to check for intermittent shorts or intermittent high-current-drain problems.

In setup #3, the ammeter will tell you what the charging system is putting out, but it doesn't tell you if the battery is charging or draining. This is also not very useful except for detecting intermittent charging system failures.

As i said, a battery voltage meter will tell you if the battery is in trouble or not, so it's the best permanent setup. The other ammeter setups are what you may want to do troubleshooting.

On some of the 80's Kawasaki's, the tachometer by pushing on a switch, became a voltmeter. I've got it on my 82 GPz1100 B2 and most of the Kz's had it too.

It reads battery voltage, not any of the three phases from the alternator.

I guess I'm pretty paranoid. You have to consider the context. I bought the bike in July of 2007, and have yet to go 400 miles without it leaving me beside the road waiting for AAA to get there. They know my number by heart now. When I call, they don't say "Hello", they say: "Where are you this time, Sean?" My tips have paid for a year's college for the driver's kid.

I've gone through 4 regulators, 4 stators, 4 batteries, and 2 rotors. I've had the old harness off the bike and gone through it twice. Most recently, we've taken a different harness, gone through it from end to end, tracing every wire from the fuseblock out to it's termination point, cleaning, scuffing and replacing as necessary every connector along the way until there is no measurable voltage drop.

Even after all that, we still found my freshly rewound (overwound) Rick's Motorsport Electrics stator with less than 400 miles on it was eaten. Hopefully it's a last vestige of whatever problem was there before the "new" harness.

Even after replacing that stator, however, and with a completely different wiring harness, every inch of it thoroughly and meticulously gone over and massaged until perfect, I'm still not getting the 13.5 VAC @ idle, 14.5-15 VAC @ 4000 RPM I should be. It's more like 12.6-12.8 @ idle; 13.5-13.7 @ 4000 RPM, which, coincidentally, just happens to be the numbers it has charged at each time I've replaced a regulator/rectifier, battery, stator, rotor, etc. throughtout this seemingly-endless three year nightmare. I then ride it, and somewhere in the next 400 miles (best case), to 9 miles (worst case), it stops charging, drains the battery, and dies, a draw shows up beyond the charging system's output and drains the battery, and it dies, or both, and I am left beside the road waiting on AAA.

(This is the point where Patton normally comes in and kindly suggests I use a fully-charged car battery for the testing and check the integrity of my grounds, and I start looking for a tall building to jump off of. It's great advice, and greatly appreciated, but no matter how many times I point out that both have been done more times than I can count already, the advice never changes)

My point is, even if the horrible, incessant, terrible, never-ending, awful, endless, soul-sucking electrical problems I've had since the day I bought the bike are finally resolved, and even though I absolutely love that @#$%^&!!! KZ650, like a wife who has cheated, I may forgive her, but I will NEVER trust her.

Every time I start that bike up, I'm troubleshooting. I will never be able to confidently go on the long rides with my friends I've been waiting over three years to go on, no matter how many batteries, stators, rotors, regulator/rectifiers, or harnesses I put on the bike because I'm terrified of being away from my Battery Tender Jr. for too long. It's like Ultra Man (or Bird Man, for that matter)and the sun .... gotta recharge regularly. I'm tied to that Battery Tender Jr. like a junkie to his dealer, like a hooker to her pimp, Like Sarah Palin to really dumb, semi-(or il)literate tweets, like Barack Obama to big promises that he won't fight for, like Steell to saving money.

Sure, I can see the benefit of a voltmeter, it's definitely better than nothing, but what I really want to be able to do is catch problems the moment they show up, not later.

Here's my ideal setup:

It has an LCD digital panel similar to the one you posted earlier, but smaller (if possible), and a multi-position switch.

I sit on the bike and switch it on, with the multi-position switch in the "Volts" position so I can check out the battery.

Next, I move the switch to the next position, which measures draw. I assume that would be an ammeter mode. I would know what the upper and lower parameters for draw were, and so I would be able to immediately see if there was a dead draw.

I could then start the bike with the switch in the same position. I would then be able to see what the bike was drawing while running. Again, I would know what the proper parameters would be for that, and would be able to see if there was a problem there.

I would then move the switch to the next position, which would measure the charging system's output. If it's in parameters, I know I'm good.

I'd ride off, waiting till I was at a steady cruise to recheck draw and output. Again, if they're within parameters I know I'm good.

I'd put the switch in whatever position was best for normal-condition cruising and motor away, confident in the fact that everything was copacetic with that @#$%^&!!! KZ650's harging system, rechecking as frequently as my paranoia and OCD required.

I realize it seems kind of farfetched, but look at this:

www.meritline.com/lcd-digital-multimeter...2.aspx?source=fghdac

That is a digital LCD voltmeter/ammeter that sells for 6.70 that I'm pretty sure would take every measurement I spoke of. The only difference is the leads would need to be moved to different points for each measurement. By now, everyone knows I have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to anything electrical (and a whole lot of other things, too), but if you can get all that for under 7 bucks, I have to think there are weatherproof digital LCDs and multi-position switches available, and ammeter and voltmeter guts that could be remote mounted under the seat. All it would take is someone with the knowledge to put it together and market it(for a $$$profit$$$, this IS America, you know) to dummies like me.

Think about it. On board diagnostics. With as many posts on here about phantom electrical problems that come and go, etc., I'd think I wouldn't be the only one who would like this idea.

Now, I'm sure there are about a dozen reasons why this won't be possible, so I'll just go back to trying to figure out thow to get as close to my ideal as possible.