runing with no charging system

what to run my kz750 1977 with out the battery just make it a kick start can i do this is the a right way. i took the battery out and it ran but blew ot all the light bulbs headlight to taillight i think the volt regulater is bad (overcharging) but not sure. please help

The battery acts like a storage tank for direct current created by the charging system. It fills the need for power when the engine is at low rpm.

If you run the bike without the charging system, then it would be considered a "Total Loss" ignition system with no means of replacing the current drawn from the battery.

As you've found out, the light bulbs(and possibly the ignition system) were damaged.

I'd not recommend runring the bike this way as it could/may strand you on the road........

yes the starting system has been effected I replaced the sleinod and the starter button still does not work. if i jump it with a screwdiver it trys to turn the starter but will not. next i will replace the battery for it is bad. thank you

I'd check the run/stop switch in the right handlebar switch pod for dirty contacts/broken solder joints/broken wires.

Starter Solenoid/Motor Checkout Procedure

Some simple steps to determine what is working and what's not:

1.Fully charge and test the battery(most bike shops can load test the battery, and then use a floating ball hydrometer to check specific gravity in the charged cells).

2.Clean all battery terminals of corrosion.

3.Tighten all starting related connections(Positive RED(+) battery terminal, Negative BLACK(-)terminal) and from the terminal to the engine case. All connections must be clean and tight.

4.Clean the cable from the starter solenoid to the starter motor.

5.Clean and check the "bullet connectors" going to the coil side of the starter solenoid.

6.Try again to start the bike, keep in mind some Kawasaki’s have a clutch interlock to prevent cranking the engine while it’s in gear, so the clutch lever must be squeezed.

7.If no luck, go to step #8

8.Wearing eye protection, bridge with pliers or a screwdriver the two heavy duty(large)terminals on the solenoid. If the bike cranks, your solenoid may be bad.

9. If the starter won’t turn over, one of several things has happened; The starter motor has seized due to brushes binding up, lack of lubrication in the bushings of the motor, the battery is weak , the engine has seized or it could be a combination of any of the above. Some websites for starter motor rebuild kits are:

A. www.mawonline.com/newsite/rick_s_motorsp...-starter_brushes.htm

B. www.cyclewareables.com/pages/street_star...kits/startmtrkit.htm (not sure if the website is still viable)


10.The dealer may want $$$ for a new solenoid, but take your old one along and visit the nearest riding lawn mower shop. They have solenoids for about $15 that with a little work will fit. Be aware that the new solenoid from the lawn mower shop may require a ground wire for it to work.

11. I’d recommend upgrading from the existing battery cables to at least 6 gauge welding cables.
They are available in two colors(RED and BLACK) have more flexibility due to being constructed with finer conductors, and will fit in tighter areas.

12. The welding cable is sold by the foot, so take careful measurements or bring your old cables along. Most battery shops might be able to supply the cable too, so call to find out. The battery shop should be able to crimp/swage on the end of the welding cable the terminal ends or lugs using either a dedicated crimping machine or a tool that looks like a bolt cutter that has special dies to terminate the cable.

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I wrote this procedure for the Z1's,Kz900's,Kz1000's and Kz1100's but it should apply to your bike too:

Alternator Testing For the Older 4’s(Z1’s,Kz 900’s, Kz1000’s,Kz1100’s and GPz1100’s).

To check to see if the alternator is working you need to follow these simple steps:

1. Fully charge the battery as this will be the power source during this test.

2. Disconnect the Regulator/Rectifier at the plug that has the six wires in it.

3. Start the engine and let it warm to operating temperature.

4. If you're worried about overheating, position a large fan for cooling the engine.

5. After the engine has reached operating temperature, have a helper assist you, and using a multi-meter, read the output at the three yellow wires (or the alternator output wires)at the disconnected connector.

6. Raise the engine speed to 4000 rpm, and see what the three YELLOW wire combinations(or any alternator output wires) are(1-3,2-3 & 1-2). The output will be around 50 Volts A.C.(Alternating Current). BE CAREFUL, AS THERE IS A SHOCK HAZARD HERE!!



7. If any of the combinations are low or non-existent, the stator(wire windings) are bad and must be replaced.
Some of the older Z1’s and KZ900’s were phase sensitive, so check the wire colors carefully.

8. Using an OHMETER, Check the three wire combinations again, looking for a reading of 0.36 - 0.54 OHMS. If the readings are above or below, the stator may be bad and need replacement. Also check from any of the three YELLOW wires to ground, this will show if arcing took place.

9. Before ordering a new stator, check the connections from the stator as there are electrical "Bullet" connectors that may be damaged or dirty.
Inspect the wiring for signs of shorting or overheating too. www.z1enterprises.com sells replacement rubber grommets for the alternator output wiring, they get hard and could leak oil after a while.

10. Check the wiring coming out of the grommet as there have been situations where the wires were damaged causing a short(I.E. twisted together with insulation damage).

11. The sprocket cover will have to be removed to access the electrical connectors coming from the alternator, the left foot peg assembly and shifting lever will have to come off also.
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Alternator Stator Replacement On the Older 4’s
Source for replacement Stators

A. www.electrosport.com (They have a trouble shooting page)
B. www.customrewind.com
C. www.rmstator.com
D. www.ricksmotorsportselectrics.com
E. www.regulatorrectifier.com

1. If by testing either by checking the output voltage from the stator or by using and ohmmeter for resistance and the stator is determined to be bad, replacing the stator is not a difficult job.

2. The motorcycle owner should have on hand a replacement alternator gasket as it will tear on removal and leak if reused.

3. Put the bike on the center stand if possible and lean it to the right to minimize the oil volume that could come out when the alternator cover is removed.

4. Have selection of Metric wrenches and sockets along with Metric Allen keys to be able to accomplish this repair. ¼" and 3/8" ratchets and extensions may be needed along with Allen bits.

5. Remove the gear shift lever, the sprocket cover and possibly the left foot peg assembly.


6. A catch pan for what little oil will be lost should be positioned under the alternator on the left side. Newspapers will soak up any oil lost or some kitty litter will do as an absorbent.

7. Remove the alternator cover fasteners, some bikes use a socket head cap screw(Allen type) and others use the Phillips head type, the #3 screwdriver bit fits best for those. Use a small dish or can to collect the removed fasteners from the parts to prevent loss/damage.

8. The alternator stator is secured to the inside of the cover usually with three Allen headed bolts, Some bikes may have Torx style fasteners, Remove them and disconnect the three yellow wires that have bullet connectors on them from the bundled wires inside the sprocket cover.

9. If your bike has some color other than yellow for the alternator output wires, make note of what goes where as the older Kawasaki’s were phase sensitive in regard to the regulator/rectifiers.

10. When installing the replacement stator, clock or position the output wires and grommet so they fit into the small port under the alternator cover without being pinched or damaged.

11. Tighten the three Allen or Torx fasteners, securing the replacement stator to the cover. I like using the BLUE Loctite # 242 for hardware that can be removed with hand tools.

12. Remove the old gasket from the mating surfaces of the alternator cover and engine case by scraping with a piece of sharpened plastic like Lexan or Plexi-glass as these will not gouge the soft Aluminum
Cases. Avoid using a metal gasket scraper for this.

13. Position the alternator cover, checking for pinched wiring and install the fasteners with a little silver anti-seize on the threads, tightening to the correct torque.

14. Connect up the output wires to the mating female bullet connectors and while you’re in there, check the routing of the wire bundle that runs through there.

15. Inspect for signs of heat damage to the wire insulation and vibration damage too.

16. The side stand switch, neutral switch, and oil pressure switch wiring are all bundled with the alternator output wiring running above and behind the engine output sprocket. This bundle runs in a channel as it goes up toward the various electrical connections.

17. The regulator/rectifier plug on the 80’s bikes usually has six wires in it:

A. One (1)WHITE with RED stripe, this is the bikes main power wire usually 12 gauge in size.

B. One(1) smaller Brown wire, probably 18 gauge or so, the voltage sense wire for the regulator/rectifier, helps keeping it from overcharging the battery.

C. One(1) BLACK with YELLOW stripe wire, part of the ground circuits, maybe 16 gauge in size.

D. Three(3) YELLOW wires, maybe 14 gauge in size, the alternator output wires going to the regulator/rectifier which converts the Alternating Current(A.C.) to Direct Current(D.C.) using rectification, producing the power to run the motorcycle and charge the battery.

18. Reinstall the sprocket cover, again checking for pinched wires before tightening. Install the shifter on it’s splined shaft checking for proper location, and the left side foot peg assembly.

19. Except for the minor oil spill and reluctant fasteners, it’s not a very difficult job to do.

check with lou,he'll make you a diagragm to wire it by

hiltagator wrote:

what to run my kz750 1977 with out the battery just make it a kick start can i do this is the a right way. i took the battery out and it ran but blew ot all the light bulbs headlight to taillight i think the volt regulater is bad (overcharging) but not sure. please help

You just learned a valuable lesson: the battery in a car/bike system acts like a giant filter cap to smooth the DC spikes and hash coming from the regulator. Without a battery or with a battery with an open cell, your electrical system gets fried in short order by the voltage spikes. Been there, did that when I had a battery fry a cell.

Some bikes that run a "batteryless" electrical system do it by using a giant filter cap in it's place.

If you want a "Kick Only" system, then look at the dirt bikes. Since day 1 practically they had lights but no battery, kick start. Most don't even have a regulator, the stator is much less wattage, and the lights will change brightness greatly between Idle and high RPM. Snowmobiles too, I used to add more lights to 1 of my old sleds to use more of the current made by the stator at high R's so I wouldn't blow bulbs, worked fine but were dim at Idle.

There is a significant difference between average voltage and RMS voltage if the voltage is in pulses. Normally, a battery smooths out the pulses into a large, steady DC voltage (12 to 14) with a 1 or 2 volt ripple on it.

The regulator is designed to regulate the average voltage, because it is much easier to do than regulating the RMS voltage. The RMS voltage is the true measure of the effective power the voltage is delivering to any given load. Since the battery is keeping the voltage at a relatively steady level, the difference between average voltage and RMS voltage is very small.

If you remove the battery, the regulator still tries to maintain the average voltage, but at times the voltage gets really low, so to compensate, the regulator lets voltage get really high at other times. That way the average is around 14v.

Unfortunately, this means the RMS voltage can get quite high (depending on how the regulator circuit is designed). This is why the bulbs can blow and ignitions can melt. It's not enough current to blow a fuse, but it's enough to blow everything else.

And, the crazy thing is, if you put a voltmeter on it, the voltage may not seem all that much too high. That's because DC voltmeters measure average voltage and that's what the regulator is regulating. If you put on a true RMS voltmeter, it would show the voltage to be much higher, maybe in the 16 to 20v range or even much higher (depending on if it's 3-phase or 1-phase, and how the regulator circuit is designed, and how fast the motor is turning).

To eliminate the battery you need a 6000 to 12000 micro-farad, 50v capacitor in place of the battery. If the regulator/rectifier has a dedicated sense line for the voltage, (on Kawasaki's, this wire is brown on the regulator/rectifier) then that wire must be tied to the hot output of the rec/reg (usually white or red or white with red stripe). This is so the cap won't blow when you shut off the motor. During shutdown the regulator is temporarily disabled until the motor stops. This won't hurt a battery, but can blow a cap. So the regulator sense wire must sense the capacitor voltage at all times.

Running battery-less only works on KZ's using a permanent magnet alternator.

Here is some of the math, on the subject, if anyone is interested.

thanks to all who repleyed great help will stay with battery

Guess you made it home in the monsoon last night