2&3 double-dipping!

As some of you might already be aware I recently purchased a 1978 KZ650B2A that supposedly "ran good". After paying for it and riding for 50miles or so I realized that it just was not running as it should. Come to find out cylinder #2 is ice cold after the rest are hot... but that could be an unrelated problem... Live and learn... I'm just hoping I can get it running by May without going broke...

I'm going through all the normal steps of troubleshooting and was just checking timing because the motor, while starting up quick, has no guts and left me stranded trying to go uphill from a stop... It used to at least ride okay, if even on 3.5 cylinders... I adjusted the gaps, and worked on the timing. First off - I set the voltmeter to "X1K Ohms" as per the manual, and i was expecting it to start with the needle at 0, and only jump while "sparking" ideally on "F" for each coil, respectively. The needle stayed up the whole time and would quiver (jump?) when it got to the "F" , I timed the points off this small jump - is something wrong here? 2nd off - Both kawasaki and clymer manuals are pretty vague in terms of actually how to adjust the timing "loosen the mounting screws and adjust" uummmm...gee thanks. Through trial and error I got them to jump almost exactly at the F mark for both. Third - I then set up to do a dynamic timing test with my new handy (read: cheapo) strobe timing light and I was pleased that (even though this light would not fire consistently, though consistently inconsistent, so no harm) 1&4 were completely dead on the F mark at idle! 2&3 were really close, maybe 1mm early - but wait! - WTF!?..... - 2&3 are also firing at 1&4 about 1/10 to 1/5 of the time... what ...the ...hell? I'm thinking this might explain the bogging down when trying to put it in gear? and some of the general shitty overall running?

Sorry for the rant and ramble, but is this something that can be fixed through adjustment, I assume so but dont have the slightest clue how to start besides more trial and error... Dyna S time? If anyone could help me understand whats going on and how to fix it (or trade bikes?) you would really help me out. Points are clean and new, new battery, points are gapped to a perfect .35mm... I know this wont help cylinder 2 come to life, but I have to start somewhere...

This 900$ sweet ass bike with only 10k miles on it has turned into a 1400$ paper weight that I want to throw off a cliff...

On the bigger, older 4's (Z1's,Kz900's,Kz1000's,and Kz1100's)are wired this way:

Ignition Coil Primary And Secondary Wiring

Ignition coils on the 80’s Kz1000,Kz1100’s and Gpz1100’s are wired the same, that is as you sit on the bike, the LEFT ignition coil primary(small wires) are two wires, RED and BLACK. The secondary (or sparkplug wires) got to #1 and #4 sparkplugs.

For the RIGHT ignition coil, the primary wires, again are two wires, RED and GREEN, with the secondary going to #2 and #3.

The RED wire gets it’s voltage from the run/stop switch on the right handlebar switch pod.

The BLACK and GREEN wires connect to the IC Igniter(if the bike has the Kawasaki supplied electronic ignition) it actually gives the coils their ground firing the sparkplugs.

These engines have a "Wasted Spark" that is a sparkplug fires on the exhaust stroke.

For your 650 the coil arangement might be differently,with the RIGHT coil going to #1 and #4 and LEFT coil going to #2 and #3.

hmmm, forgive me but I'm not quite following... I have factory points ignition (with pretty new points). If there is a wasted spark wouldnt it show up on the 1-4 timing light test as well? Could my 2-3 coil be toast and shorting out? The problem was identical on either plug #2 or #3... so I dont think its a plug/plugwire issue...

The only thing I can think of would be a short in the 2-3 ignition system somewhere maybe, or a coil that is going out??? I'm definitely no expert but this just seems like a really strange problem to be having...:dry:

I was going to check the plug-wire-coil connections tomorrow to be sure... maybe put the riding thing on hold for a couple months until I can save up for a Dyna S and coils? That will give me ample time to chase down the gremlin that is keeping #2 from firing 3/4 of the time... :blink:


Okay I re-read your post, and that would make sense with the GREEN and BLACK wires going to the ignition, but I still don't understand what that means as far as this issue ... :dry: :whistle:

If you are using an ohm meter to time the ignition, you must put a piece of paper in the set of points you are not timing. Other wise the other set of points will affect the meter.

Both sets of points have common connections. One is at ground, and the other is through each coil to the power feed wire. You must put a piece of paper in the other set of points to remove them from the circuit.

As Mfolks said, the small fours (550/650/750) have the parts laid out slightly differently. This just means the physical locations of the coils are opposite from the big fours, but electrically the bikes are basically wired the same. The black points wire goes to the 1/4 points and the 1/4 coil. The green wire goes to the 2/3 points and the 2/3 coil.
The 1/4 points should be the rear points and the 2/3 points should be the front points. This is as long as the ignition rotor is in the original orientation. If not, then it would be best to correct it just to avoid confusion later.

loudhvx wrote:

If you are using an ohm meter to time the ignition, you must put a piece of paper in the set of points you are not timing. Other wise the other set of points will affect the meter.

Both sets of points have common connections. One is at ground, and the other is through each coil to the power feed wire. You must put a piece of paper in the other set of points to remove them from the circuit.

This will really help thanks!

As for the problem: everything is wired correctly and the ignition is stock so everything is where it should be. As far as I can figure out everything is set up fine, the only things is that while the engine is running 2&3 are firing on 2&3 "F" mark, but also on the 1&4 randomly. I dont know what would cause this or if it is just a "wasted spark" and shouldn't effect anything?