TOPIC:

I'm new to biking, again. Last bike I owned was 30 years ago. I just bought a bike, used of course, and it seems to have turned out it's a 1977 chassis with a 80 A4 motor. I need a regulator/rect. for it and have seen the numbers on two that read sh230-12 9.d, and sh230-12 8.y. Dealers says they mean nothing but a vendor number to Kawasaki. What do they mean? Will either or both work? Bike has Dyna ignition.

Thanks

You can use a reg/rect from just about any bike as long as you wire it up correctly.

Most of them are basic three phase rectifier with some noise suppression. Most use zener diodes as shunt regulators to prevent overcharge of the battery.

Do a little perusal of various schemes from different vendors bikes of the same vintage. There are plenty of them on the WWW and plenty of discussion re: constructing ones own, adapting from other bikes, etc.

-Duck

Duck wrote:

You can use a reg/rect from just about any bike as long as you wire it up correctly.

Most of them are basic three phase rectifier with some noise suppression. Most use zener diodes as shunt regulators to prevent overcharge of the battery.

Do a little perusal of various schemes from different vendors bikes of the same vintage. There are plenty of them on the WWW and plenty of discussion re: constructing ones own, adapting from other bikes, etc.

-Duck

If by "any" bike you mean a KZ from the same period using the same type of alternator, then I agree.

"Noise suppression" on a rectifier? That's a new one on me.

Zener diodes as a shunt regulator? These KZ's are not using Lucas-electronic-technology (an oxymoron by the way) from the 60's.

The reg/rec must be for your type of alternator. This means it has to be for a permanent-magnet alternator, or it has to be for an excited-field alternator. The one in question is most likely permanent magnet which is what most common KZ's were (but not all). It also has to be made for the right number of phases (single or triple).

He didn't list what bike the motor is from. If he's talking about a 77 650 chassis, that bike was originally wired for an excited-field alternator with seperate reg and rec. It will require some re-wiring to get a permanent-magnet alternator to work.

The rectifier portion can have two or three diodes per phase depending on the type of alternator/regulator setup the bike is using. This means it can have from 4 diodes to 9 diodes.

Zener diodes burn up when subjected to large currents. BSAs, Triumphs, etc used large Zeners as shunts but they failed miserably. SCRs have replaced them almost entirely. Zeners are still used in the detection circuit though.

Oh, and the numbers that are actually on the unit don't necessarily correspond to the Kawasaki part number for that unit. Vendors used different numbers, but sometimes they were similar. This is true on electronic ignition mudules also.

So what model is the motor from?

Post edited by: loudhvx, at: 2006/02/25 20:18

Hi,
Thanks for the responses, though a bit over-board on the technical end. All I know about the bike is what I have listed here. The guy I bought it from said that is all he knows about the bike.

Thanks

My Bad....It's a KZ1000.

Was suggesting doing some reading and learning what he has in comparison to other bikes rather than looking for an exact PN. I'm pretty new to working on bikes and that's the approach I usually take. Saves a lot of $.

Based on what I've seen so far, the most significant difference in bikes of the era and size that we mess with around here is going to be delta vs wye connected stator.

I'm really surprised to learn that Kaw used an excited field. I would expect this from Honda on their goldwing but for reliability, the PM rotor can't be beat. Never seen a single phase aside from the magneto on the old Puch moped. No rectifier or regulator there.

-Duck

IIRC, 76-77 750 twins are single phase excited field alternators, and 78-83 are single phase permanent magnet. I just took a look at the parts diagram at buykawasaki.com for the 1980 KZ1000A4 and I can't tell how many wires come out of the alternator but it appears to have a six segment rotor and I think that means it's a 3 phase.

djs699 wrote:

Hi,
Thanks for the responses, though a bit over-board on the technical end. All I know about the bike is what I have listed here. The guy I bought it from said that is all he knows about the bike.

Thanks

loudhvx:

I always appreciate your "overboard technical explanations".
They are very informative. Thank you.
Harry

Delta or Wye shouldn't make a difference. The regulator would still work the same.

There are quite a few single-phase KZs. The 400 and 650s had several single-phase models. Even the early 550s were single.

The early 400s were excited-field. The 77 650 had a very unique excited-field design. It had no brushes or slip rings. The only problem was the mechanical regulator.

Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate ALL the information. In this case though I just want to find what fits and works. Thanks for the Kaw site too, I went there and got part numbers for stuff. Cool site.

Thanks,
Daniel

Do you know which model your bike is? We know what model the motor is, KZ 1000 A4. But it might help to know which model the chassis is.

I only have a diagram for a 77 1000 LTD. I don't want to assume the wiring is the same for all 77 1000 models.

The 77 1000 LTD uses a seperate rectifier and regulator. It uses a 3-phase, permanent magnet alternator.

Buykawasaki.com is down right now so I can't finish the research. But, from the fiche, it looked like the '80 1000 A4 motor uses a 3-phase, permanent-magnet alternator. I'm assuming 3-phase because the rotor had 6 sections and the stator had 9 pole-pieces. How many yellow wires are coming out of the alternator?

Alright, so here's what I can say based on the limited info, and making some assumptions. Your chassis is wired for a seperate regulator and rectifier to be used with a 3-phase, permanent-magnet alternator. The motor has a 3-phase, permanent-magnet alternator. You want to use a one-piece reg/rec. Well, then you can use the reg/rec from:
Most, if not all, 81-83 KZ550
82-83 KZ650 H2/H3 (CSR)
79 KZ1000 LTD
80 KZ1000 A4

And I'm sure many others, but that site is still down so I can't check.

Your main issue will be the wiring. You are converting from a dual reg/rec to a combo reg/rec so the plugs will be different. The wiring may be different colors. And the physical size and shape will likely be different. The only way for everything to be the same is to get what was made for your 77 chassis. But none of these issues are major hurdles. They can all be worked around easily.

You may also want to look into aftermarket units, if you have the cash.

Post edited by: loudhvx, at: 2006/02/27 02:39

Thanks Loud, I took advice from here and have been gathering info and it seems they made different charging systems from 76-80 and they are found on about any given model til early 79. The major difference being the seperate reg and rect. used with a different stator/rotor combo. Since I have the 1980 crankshaft with the keyless big-end is easier to just covert over to the 1980 electrical components and switch a few wires.
I'd like to thank everyone for their imput, advice, and guidence.

Daniel