UPDATED: Why won't it start? It did! Yay!

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07 May 2007 19:01 #138047 by DrWhizBang
UPDATED: Why won't it start? It did! Yay! was created by DrWhizBang
Fortunately the bike held out long enough for me to pass my road test. Now it gets fussy on me...

I tried to start the bike yesterday with no luck. A bit surprising, since I had started it a few hours earlier. I futzed around with the idle screw a bit and gave up.

Today, I started trying to get it to go. I pulled a spark plug to check for fire, but found none. Ah - an ignition problem! I dug out my multimeter and may Clymer manual and started poking around. Not quite sure what I am supposed to be checking, since I am fairly new at this, but I started running some of the tests in the manual on whatever component I could see. This first thing I found that didn't look right was the regulator/rectifier - according to the book, positive on yellow and negative on black should give me less than 20 ohms, and vice versa should be more than 100 ohms. I'm getting no reading at all.

What I am not sure of, is am I reading this right? And would this be my problem?

Any ideas would be helpful. We're supposed to have nice weather for the next couple of days, and I'd much rather be riding than wrenching...

Post edited by: DrWhizBang, at: 2007/05/12 13:44

KZ650C2 w/810CC in Saint John, NB
-- a sleeper, methinks.

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07 May 2007 20:39 #138066 by clubhobo
Replied by clubhobo on topic Why won't it start? *groans*
I'm new too..but I managed to bring a 79 650 back from the dead with the help of these guys. I would quit on the regulater that's more of a charging system issue..Yours wont start..no spark. Charge that battery all the way up...measure the volts at the battery, make sure it's 12V. Try to start..check for spark. No spark (check all plugs against the case w/fully charged battery) go to the coils and points...more likely the points...point gap..dirty etc. Could be a bad coil if not in the points area. One coil handles 1 and 4 cylinder...other one handles 2 and 3. Same with points..one side 1 and 4..other 2 and 3.

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07 May 2007 21:07 #138070 by DrWhizBang
Replied by DrWhizBang on topic Why won't it start? *groans*
clubhobo wrote:

Charge that battery all the way up...measure the volts at the battery, make sure it's 12V.

It was when I started out - measures about 9V now from running the headlight while I jump up and down on the kick like an idiot.

Try to start..check for spark. No spark (check all plugs against the case w/fully charged battery)

yup. no spark :-(

go to the coils and points...more likely the points...point gap..dirty etc. Could be a bad coil if not in the points area. One coil handles 1 and 4 cylinder...other one handles 2 and 3. Same with points..one side 1 and 4..other 2 and 3.

I checked the coils per the directions in the Clymer book - all readings were correct.

The PO told me that it has been upgraded to elecronic ignition. Doesn't that mean I don't have points? This all foreign territory - all my vehicles have been fuel injected/computer controlled high-tech monsters for ages!

What bugs me the most is I even had it running earlier in the day! Bleah!

KZ650C2 w/810CC in Saint John, NB
-- a sleeper, methinks.

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07 May 2007 22:26 #138079 by Grantl
Replied by Grantl on topic Why won't it start? *groans*
I had the same type problem--no visible spark and bike would not start even when it had been running (roughly) earlier. I pulled the rectifier and spark igniter, checked the coils and used the manual to check the resistances. The readings I got were inconclusive so I put it all back together. I trickle charged the battery and
BOUGHT NEW PLUGS----. The new plugs made all the difference. Even though the old ones didn't look bad, the difference in the amount of spark was immediately noticable. The bike started immediately after I made this simple change. I hope this is all that is wrong with your bike.

1981 KZ1000 CSR
1983 KZ750 Project Bike
1990 550 Zephyr
1994 KZ1000 P

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08 May 2007 04:46 #138106 by DrWhizBang
Replied by DrWhizBang on topic Why won't it start? *groans*
Grantl wrote:

I had the same type problem--no visible spark and bike would not start even when it had been running (roughly) earlier. I pulled the rectifier and spark igniter, checked the coils and used the manual to check the resistances. The readings I got were inconclusive so I put it all back together. I trickle charged the battery and


BOUGHT NEW PLUGS----. The new plugs made all the difference. Even though the old ones didn't look bad, the difference in the amount of spark was immediately noticable. The bike started immediately after I made this simple change. I hope this is all that is wrong with your bike.


Heheh. Me too. It sounds like you were exactly where I was, so I'll take your advice. I guess I will just go through the chapter on routine maintenance and make sure I have covered all of that off.

Thanks for the advice, guys!

KZ650C2 w/810CC in Saint John, NB
-- a sleeper, methinks.

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08 May 2007 04:54 #138107 by BSKZ650
Replied by BSKZ650 on topic Why won't it start? *groans*
pull the point cover to see if it has a upgrade ignition, if so check to make sure that it has not come loose, I chased that one for a couple of hours

77 kz650, owned for over 25 years
77 ltd1000, current rider
76 kz900, just waiting
73 z1,, gonna restore this one
piglet, leggero harley davidson
SR, Ride captian, S.E.Texas Patriot Guard Riders.. AKA KawaBob

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08 May 2007 06:31 #138118 by clubhobo
Replied by clubhobo on topic Why won't it start? *groans*
sounds like no points....check and see your electronic ignition under the cover...might be loose....should be a test to see if it's getting power too.

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08 May 2007 06:43 #138119 by The Milkman
Replied by The Milkman on topic Why won't it start? *groans*
As Grant said clean or replace the plugs I had that problem too when I put a set of auolite plugs in mine. I never did like them but they were all that were available when I went to buy them. I replaced them with a new set of champions and it started right up.
Also, not to demean you or anything, for basic diagnostic help on the electrical system. Always test the battery and make sure it is fully charged, and only work on one system at a time. If you are having ignition problems just work on that. Then when you get that working do your charging system testing if you want. Doing them together can and will totally get confusing. I know the systems all work together, but they are seperate circuits. When working on the one circuit you may just find a corroded or loose component and fixing that may correct both problems. It just makes it less confusing and simpler to work on one circuit at a time.

78 650-C2, Stock engine, Jardine 4-2 Exh., 17-38 sprockets, dyna ignition and coils, coil wiring mod, carb mod.

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08 May 2007 09:43 #138188 by DrWhizBang
Replied by DrWhizBang on topic Why won't it start? *groans*
The Milkman wrote:

Also, not to demean you or anything...


I think I do a pretty good job of demeaning myself, thank you very much ;-)

I'm asking because my degree of cluelessness is fairly high - somewhere north of dismantling lawnmower motors in 8th grade shop class, but way south of troubleshooting ignition systems. Fortunately I can read, so I just started looking through the manual and testing stuff. So does this mean if the regulator/rectifier is dead then I should still get spark? If so then great, I will ignore it.

I bought some new plugs, and I will change those. I will also pull the cover on the ignition to see what I've got. Stay tuned for the next thrilling installment...

BTW, I appreciate all the help here :-) If it weren't for you guys, I would have to save a lot longer and buy a new-ish ride, and that wouldn't be nearly as much fun :D

KZ650C2 w/810CC in Saint John, NB
-- a sleeper, methinks.

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08 May 2007 11:09 #138211 by The Milkman
Replied by The Milkman on topic Why won't it start? *groans*
DrWhizBang wrote:

The Milkman wrote:

Also, not to demean you or anything...


I think I do a pretty good job of demeaning myself, thank you very much ;-)


LOL,, I'm glad you took that line as it was meant, and we all demean ourselves pretty well here, :laugh:

Personally, I would do the ignition tests first to get it running because then you can do the voltage tests on the charging system.
Again, Good luck.

78 650-C2, Stock engine, Jardine 4-2 Exh., 17-38 sprockets, dyna ignition and coils, coil wiring mod, carb mod.

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08 May 2007 11:46 #138224 by DrWhizBang
Replied by DrWhizBang on topic Why won't it start? *groans*
OK, here is what I am working with:



Definitely not what they show in the manual. I notice that it looks a bit scored:






and twisted:



Is this alright? Can I test this by checking for voltage across the two sides?

KZ650C2 w/810CC in Saint John, NB
-- a sleeper, methinks.

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08 May 2007 18:39 #138366 by clubhobo
Replied by clubhobo on topic Why won't it start? *groans*
yep electronic ignition...I don't know too much about em but those look old and worn...if it was me I would swap them out for peace of mind...especially on a new bike to me.....EBAY is my friend.

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