Tuning for ethanol

Here is a good read but it is from a company selling test kits; Link

To aid in reducing the negative effects of ethanol on your fuel system there are a few simple fixes like changing all of the o-rings to the correct fluorocarbon based seal like Viton Grade F, proper fuel line with NBR inner lining that meets SAE J30R7 like the Goodyear brand fuel line (others might be OK but theirs is the only one I know to be to the spec).

Now for the part that makes your head hurt...

Ethanol raises the octane of gasoline so when you remove it you will be lowering the octane, but it is also a lower energy density fuel, just 76k BTU a gallon compared to 116k a gallon for regulator pure gas. The octane of pure ethanol is about 115. So Jeff it would appear that E85 will be worse not better in making power (power is the work that energy provides so low density energy fuels like ethanol can not provide the same work with the same volume as pure gas). The gov tout's the energy of ethanol as a High Heating Value but that isn't a true number for gasoline engines unless maybe it was a turbo that recycles exhaust gases, they should have been listed as a Low Heating Value but that would show that it is about 2/3rds as energy dense. To get the same energy for work/power out of your engine with ethanol, you will have raise the compression ratio much higher. That could get really complicated for the common guy in setting these old engines up with the proper compression and fuel blend/feed rates, not to mention you will be flowing 1/3 more fuel into each cylinder to get the same output of work as you did with pure gas. Mix in the E85 that's coming and higher mixes in the future and these bikes of ours might become museum pieces in our lifetime as modifying the system to tolerate the higher ethanol percentages plus the cost of even trying to reach the higher compression ratios will probably not only be unfeasible it will only get you back to the same power you had before going E85 or higher.

Here is another read on fuels from the fly boys;

"The base fuel is called "BOB", Blendstock for Oxygenated Blending. It comes in three forms that I know of, cBOB for convention BOB which is used in every state but California outside of those urban regions that need RFG or reformulated gasoline. For those regions that need RFG, they get rBOB, which is what is commonly quoted on the stock market shows like the Nightly Business Report on PBS, since rBOB is a good indication of what gasoline is going to cost. Finally California gets there own BOB, of course, CarBOB. California Air Resources BOB, which is rBOB on steroids, superclean. All BOB products are suboctane blending products used to make finished ethanol blended gasoline and are generally always illegal to use as finished gasoline that could be sold to the public, because not only is the AKI lowered, usually several other parameters, especially RVP (Reid Vapor Pressure) are altered so that when ethanol is added the result meets all of the specifications for legal gasoline made to ASTM D4814. This is why using the water method to remove ethanol, which does not work very well at all, results in something that is not really gasoline you can use, especially in your aircraft."

EDIT: Better say that "pure gas" isn't really pure as since gas is blended for ethanol then those fuels being sold as "non-ethanol' have to have other additives to them to stabilize them to a ASTM spec., it's just that these additives are not a detrimental to our systems.

A fellow KZRider, themachine, converted his KZ to run on E-85. I tried a few searches, but the search function makes it difficult. The last I remember (~4 years ago!), he had trouble with his carb boots falling apart.

Here are a couple of links to what I could find. I know there was more...


got the kaw to run on e-85


And this:


better carb boots?

Would seem a claim of an 8% power increase over gas was made, that would be hard to rationalize from the BTU/LHV of the E85 but if he up'd the compression for the E85 then to me it says he didn't have it right for the 110 gas in the first place. High octane burns slower so maybe he didn't have it to the right compression until he up'd it for the E85? Hard to say. Other than that he didn't say it was dyno'd to come up with that number or if it was just some track-time fuzzy math but it can be assumed it was something measured as who makes a claim of 8% unless there was some bench mark. Trouble in interpreting the 8% can come from whether it was done on the same dyno both gas and with E85 too though.

The bare aluminum of his carbs isn't going to be happy long either as he didn't indicate he had them powder coated with whatever it is they use like some I've read about doing to try and protect them.

Wonder how it is working out now? Would hope it has worked as if he has jumped the E85 hurdle then that is good news for just about everyone that has access to aftermarket parts to up the compression and deal with the caustic nature of ethanol.

In my hobby we have been running alcohol for ever. The most important thing to remember is that it is Hygroscopic and corrosive. As you go up the alcohol chain the acidity of the fuel decreases. Methanol is quite acidic and very corrosive. Ethanol is a bit less, Propanol is less yet and Butanol is neutral and no longer corrosive. Butanol is also no longer Hygroscopic. Ethanol will also quickly deteriorate the neoprene seals in the fuel system. this is why new vehicles come with fluoroelastomer (Viton) seals. Normally for Ethanol one jet size larger for every 10% increase for Methanol 2 jet sizes for every 10% increase. For Butanol no increase of jet size is required. Also if you run alcohol of any kind, I would not recommend and actually discourage running Platinum plugs. platinum acts as a catalyst with all alcohols and will ignite the fuel without a spark. Here in Chicago we have 10%+- ethanol in our gas in the summer and as much as 20% in the winter. In Missouri and some other states you can still get 100% gasoline. The detrimental affects of ethanol on engines is one reason you will not find it in European Gas. Instead they use Xylene.

Thanks otakar! That 20% in winter is a bit of concern as the corn lobbyists group even says not to run anything above 10% in anything built before 2001!

I know It do not make me happy either. BUT I do not run my bike in the winter. You can reduce the damaging affects of the Ethanol quite a bit by using Lucas fuel treatment. I run it in every tank In every vehicle I own no matter the age. 2.5oz/10gal. I buy it in the 1gal bottle when it is on sale for about $30.
shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/sto...33_T%7CGRP2030C_____

www.lucasoil.com/products/display_produc...s%20Fuel%20Treatment

www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-car...s-gasoline/index.htm Here is a Consumer Reports article on test results using e10 vs. e85. The vehicle was a flex fuel Chevy Tahoe I believe (which can handle e85). While MPG went down by 25%, the acceleration performance figures actually increased. Go figure.

Yes, This is why we run alcohol in the vehicles i run. You get quite a bit more power to a given combustible mixture. You get even more when you run Methanol. Those results are a known norm. If you set up your bike to take E85 you will have about 25% more HP. If you set it up to run Methanol you will have about 60% more HP. I had one set up that i was running with 85% Methanol and 15% Nitromethane. It would blow away any turbo CC per CC It gets quite expensive to run that mixture on the street though.

I experimented with increasing the main jet size to 115 and eventually went back to stock 112.5 main jets. It was certainly running a little too rich and holding back under full throttle.

I don't really like the plug color with 112.5 - a little too white on the center electrode - but with this ethanol mix in the gasoline I can't seem to get the nice tan color.