Corrected Spark Plug "BASE" Reading

@ Mark: Nothing over kill, just a tad larger then stock 900 size. KZ1000 sized SS valves on intake & exhaust. New OEM seals, APE guides, APE springs. Sorry, forget the actual dimension sizes if you need, I can get for you...

Nads: As for the wheelie, please keep in mind I have a 15/37 tooth combo on the sprockets. I also have a lighter front & rear with the ZX636 set up. The ZX also uses dual 17" tires (120mm front/180mm rear) versus the skinny KZ900 18/19 sizes.

I also use Michelin Road Pilot 2 series tires and they grip extremely well... With that big ass rear, there's a whole lot of tire surface griping the asphalt so spinning is not an issue what so ever... Not that I would or will try to (ruin a tire or end up on you-tube dumb-ass video's :blink: ), you'd really have to twist the throttle pretty hard to get her to break grip for spin.... Could it be done, surely but not by me...

In running my setup on gearing commander here's the results if you're interested....

NOTE: The calculated versus real time came out pretty close, not spot on mind you to other obvious variables but close...

Example:
In 5th gear, difference in ~ 20 between MPH and RPM.
@ 65mph = 4500rpm on my tach in 5th gear...
@ 85mph = 6500rpm on my tach in 5th gear...

Downshift to 4th gear.... :evil:
In 4th gear, difference in ~ 15 between MPH and RPM.
@ 65mph = 5000rpm on my tach in 4th gear...
@ 85mph = 7000rpm on my tach in 4th gear...

Now due to my build and cam selection, I chose to loose top end speeds for low to mid range gains... See the way I look at it, she'll max out at ~ 120mph... More than fast enough for me...

Digital ODM retains maximum speed & RPM recordings, 106mph is it at this point. If that's no fast enough, well don't know what to tell you for on a raw naked KZ (no fairings) you're being pulled back with some serious force...

Now the real fun for me (Woody) is getting to that 100mph range for she get's there really damn fast! The acceleration force is insane, blows me away... So far, everyone I've ridden with has tried to see what the old girl has for balls and she truly surprises them... :evil: I can't even count how many times after the event, they'll walk up grinning and say "Ok, what the hell did you do to her again"....

OMR

Why would anyone want to idle one of these motors 500RPM below standard idle spec? Most especially with aftermarket cams & stiffer valve springs.

That slows done the oil pump causing less oil flow available to the top end of the motor.

When doing a really fine tuned carb synch, it's common to drop the idle down to 500 RPM for that process but there is no mechanical benefit in leaving it there.

larrycavan wrote:

Why would anyone want to idle one of these motors 500RPM below standard idle spec? Most especially with aftermarket cams & stiffer valve springs.

That slows done the oil pump causing less oil flow available to the top end of the motor.

When doing a really fine tuned carb synch, it's common to drop the idle down to 500 RPM for that process but there is no mechanical benefit in leaving it there.

Great advise I usually do my idle by ear and sometimes get her pretty low as long as its smooth. I have never thought about the oil thing so I will keep that in mind from now on

larrycavan wrote:

Why would anyone want to idle one of these motors 500RPM below standard idle spec? Most especially with aftermarket cams & stiffer valve springs.

That slows done the oil pump causing less oil flow available to the top end of the motor.

When doing a really fine tuned carb synch, it's common to drop the idle down to 500 RPM for that process but there is no mechanical benefit in leaving it there.

Just thought if it idled at 12 or 13 it would definetly not idle that low or very close to that low. I would never run it like that, mines at 8 or 9 all the time. I realize it's the lobe centers that he's set the cams at that's the reason for the higher idle. That's a good question, though for another person who actually has a 500rpm setting.

mark1122 wrote:

OMR, what size vales did Larry install?

Mark,

They're 36 /30 with 88% throats.

nads.com wrote:

I meant valve to piston clearance there. If your bike has stock gearing and lifted off in 3rd, it has alot of power and I have to say I'd change my 111 lc on the intake to 105 just to see what power mine had there. If it has lower gears, I guess I can't compare with mine but I think it would come off the ground in third as well. I'm just trying to figure out if More power is available with lobe center settings like yours due to the cylinder filling, cranking compression, exhaust scavenging. I know the carbs you run are helping alot for torque and that magic port work from Cav racing. All that said I'm ready with the degree wheel for this summer. One last question, did you mill the head or deck?

I don't know what you have for cams or valve size but a 111 lobe center call is often an indication that things get close at TDC overlap. So if you have a lot of TDC overlap and / or oversize valves, keep that in mind.

larrycavan wrote:

nads.com wrote:

I meant valve to piston clearance there. If your bike has stock gearing and lifted off in 3rd, it has alot of power and I have to say I'd change my 111 lc on the intake to 105 just to see what power mine had there. If it has lower gears, I guess I can't compare with mine but I think it would come off the ground in third as well. I'm just trying to figure out if More power is available with lobe center settings like yours due to the cylinder filling, cranking compression, exhaust scavenging. I know the carbs you run are helping alot for torque and that magic port work from Cav racing. All that said I'm ready with the degree wheel for this summer. One last question, did you mill the head or deck?

I don't know what you have for cams or valve size but a 111 lobe center call is often an indication that things get close at TDC overlap. So if you have a lot of TDC overlap and / or oversize valves, keep that in mind.

You mention things and I assume you mean valve to valve contaact. 111 is one one lc. Since overlap involves two centers and my ex. center is advanced I believe the valve to valve clearance is greater in comparison with 105/105. Thanks for the heads up though, if my estimation is incorrect I'd certainly respect correction from anyone willing to inform me it's otherwise.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here but from other postings here in KZR land, a good running stock 900/1000 will wheelie in 3rd when wraped hard enough so I must be missing something in this conversation...

Hell, if you want to wheelie all day long, through a 41 tooth rear sprocket on her....

nads.com wrote:

larrycavan wrote:

nads.com wrote:

I meant valve to piston clearance there. If your bike has stock gearing and lifted off in 3rd, it has alot of power and I have to say I'd change my 111 lc on the intake to 105 just to see what power mine had there. If it has lower gears, I guess I can't compare with mine but I think it would come off the ground in third as well. I'm just trying to figure out if More power is available with lobe center settings like yours due to the cylinder filling, cranking compression, exhaust scavenging. I know the carbs you run are helping alot for torque and that magic port work from Cav racing. All that said I'm ready with the degree wheel for this summer. One last question, did you mill the head or deck?

I don't know what you have for cams or valve size but a 111 lobe center call is often an indication that things get close at TDC overlap. So if you have a lot of TDC overlap and / or oversize valves, keep that in mind.

You mention things and I assume you mean valve to valve contaact. 111 is one one lc. Since overlap involves two centers and my ex. center is advanced I believe the valve to valve clearance is greater in comparison with 105/105. Thanks for the heads up though, if my estimation is incorrect I'd certainly respect correction from anyone willing to inform me it's otherwise.

Correct.

What cams are you running?

With mild street cams, there's usualy room to play with centers but others have a comfort zone that gets narrow.

Andrews 3x in particular had a lot of overlap lift .173" but is still a street cam. The 8x has roughly 1mm less lift .132" at TDC than the 3x. Both grinds called for 106 lobe centers.

Believe me when I tell you that extra .041" is a world of difference in what you can get away with sometimes for cam timing, depending on the valves that are in the motor. You can get a narrow range of a few degrees where it can get real tight :woohoo:

Old Man Rock wrote:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here but from other postings here in KZR land, a good running stock 900/1000 will wheelie in 3rd when wraped hard enough so I must be missing something in this conversation...

Hell, if you want to wheelie all day long, through a 41 tooth rear sprocket on her....

I'd like to hear from anyone who could wheelie a stock 900 with a kz head in third without standing on the back pegs or pulling up hard. That would be some serious power to the ground, back to the drawing board for the rest of us. My bike has .407 cams 280deg@.020 and a 1015kit. If my bike could, it would be at 85mph but it doesn't even come close. I'd have to say: "It's not easy." "Only a Caveman could do it" So all u Cavemen out there sit down, take off the jacket, smile and show us that bicep flex again. Attaboy!

larrycavan wrote:

nads.com wrote:

larrycavan wrote:

nads.com wrote:

I meant valve to piston clearance there. If your bike has stock gearing and lifted off in 3rd, it has alot of power and I have to say I'd change my 111 lc on the intake to 105 just to see what power mine had there. If it has lower gears, I guess I can't compare with mine but I think it would come off the ground in third as well. I'm just trying to figure out if More power is available with lobe center settings like yours due to the cylinder filling, cranking compression, exhaust scavenging. I know the carbs you run are helping alot for torque and that magic port work from Cav racing. All that said I'm ready with the degree wheel for this summer. One last question, did you mill the head or deck?

I don't know what you have for cams or valve size but a 111 lobe center call is often an indication that things get close at TDC overlap. So if you have a lot of TDC overlap and / or oversize valves, keep that in mind.

You mention things and I assume you mean valve to valve contaact. 111 is one one lc. Since overlap involves two centers and my ex. center is advanced I believe the valve to valve clearance is greater in comparison with 105/105. Thanks for the heads up though, if my estimation is incorrect I'd certainly respect correction from anyone willing to inform me it's otherwise.

Correct.

What cams are you running?

With mild street cams, there's usualy room to play with centers but others have a comfort zone that gets narrow.

Andrews 3x in particular had a lot of overlap lift .173" but is still a street cam. The 8x has roughly 1mm less lift .132" at TDC than the 3x. Both grinds called for 106 lobe centers.

Believe me when I tell you that extra .041" is a world of difference in what you can get away with sometimes for cam timing, depending on the valves that are in the motor. You can get a narrow range of a few degrees where it can get real tight :woohoo:

Causing future damage from unkown v to v clearance is scratched off the list after that info, thanks Larry. That probably would have been my next mistake playing with those cams not realizing how close things were getting in there. I may never have known what happened even after a round two event.

So all these postings I've reviewed over the course of the last 3 years regarding "wheelies" was BS then?... :ohmy:

Wow, somewhat hard to believe that this could not occur in a stock 900/1000 but ok....