Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2

TOPIC: Kz650 '76 Historic Race Bike

Kz650 '76 Historic Race Bike 20 Jul 2017 00:05 #767360

  • echelon
  • echelon's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 17
  • Thank you received: 12
So the Z1 VM28SC carbs are on, with short stacks and foam RamAir filters over. I had a dyno run to check the jetting and all is well.
I guessed a 122.5 main which turned out to be spot on.
With a 17.5 pilot and needles on 2nd it is lean in the first 50% of throttle which I'll have a look into.
Dyno shows only a few more horsepower, but it seems to be a lot more useable. The power would peak and then drop off quickly with the VM24SS carbs, now it peaks and holds until who know what revs. This means I may save a gear change, or win a drag race to the finish line :)
Next are the cams which when they come I hope will make a noticeable difference.
Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Kz650 '76 Historic Race Bike 24 Jul 2017 07:42 #767601

  • KZB2 650
  • KZB2 650's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 1387
  • Thank you received: 235
Was told I should see a good 4 to 5 hp on the top end with the 29s and a stronger mid range and it feels like it on the old 2 lane black top we have around here anyway ........ yours looks good on the top end bet you can feel it too .... can't wait to see what the cam does for you.... will be watching.
1978 KZ650 b-2
700cc Wiseco kit 10 to 1.
1980 KZ750 cam, ape springs, stock clutch/ Barnett springs.
Vance and Hines Header w/ comp baffle and Ape pods, Dyna S and green coils, copper wires.
29MM smooth bores W/ 17.5 pilots, 0-6s and 117.5 main
16/42 gearing X ring chain and alum rear JT sprocket....

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Kz650 '76 Historic Race Bike 04 Sep 2017 02:23 #770299

  • echelon
  • echelon's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 17
  • Thank you received: 12
Ok, so the incremental increase continue :) A break between races, I've been doing things which I was hoping would give incremental increases. This time a KZ750 head, which I cleaned up the intakes, not polished, jus cleaned up, and same KZ750 cams. Also added a Dyna 2000. Dyno run today showed it now a touch lean with a 122.5 main jet, so with limited resources we used a 1.30mm drill to enlarge a set of main jets. Best runs now are 67.5hp, so a bit over a 10% increase, which we are happy with.
I have a set of reground cams on the bench which are the next thing, but as I'll have to check the valve/piston clearances I will try and wait until the end of the season. The quest continues ....



Z650B
Wiseco 700 kit
KZ750 Head and cams
Home made 4 into 1
Dyna 2000 ignition; curve 4, 9500 rpm limiter, 35 degrees advance, B7ES plugs
Z1 carbs, VM28SC with short stacks and foam overs. 1.30mm mains, 17.5 pilot, 1.0 slides, needle 2nd clip
(Sitting on the bench) Custom grind cams, “#253B that is 282 adv, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.” and .375” cam lift”



Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by echelon.

Kz650 '76 Historic Race Bike 04 Sep 2017 07:52 #770310

  • undiablo
  • undiablo's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 416
  • Thank you received: 60
Wow... this is real data and very interesting. Following.
I wonder what will happen with the .375 high lift cams.
Kawasaki KZ 750/4 LTD 1981
Kawasaki KLR 650 2011
Argentina - Buenos Aires

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Kz650 '76 Historic Race Bike 12 Sep 2017 13:31 #770811

  • turboguzzi
  • turboguzzi's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 826
  • Thank you received: 69
considering that you havent done major work other than the bore kit, these are nice numbers!

trouble is that after the initial big gains, it will become harder to makes more +10% steps......

with the stock porting i am afraid that the higher lift will just make the engine more peaky for little top end gain. my 0.02$ of course...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Kz650 '76 Historic Race Bike 25 Oct 2017 07:08 #773705

  • echelon
  • echelon's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 17
  • Thank you received: 12
We had a race meeting last weekend, the bike went well and I learnt some lessons! I took 2 seconds off my best lap time over the course of the weekend, doing the relaxed=smooth=fast method. Seems the biggest issue with my bike is the big nut on the seat :)
In this video, taken at our local country track, I was following another rider, a young girl on an LC Yamaha, who is a smooth rider. I made no attempt to pass her, as she is racing in another class and I didn't need too, just following a smooth rider I got a personal best and new lap record for my class. The best thing is I know I have a long way to go and improve my times every meeting.
Here's a video of that race, enjoy my learning process :)
The following user(s) said Thank You: blackumi

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by echelon.

Kz650 '76 Historic Race Bike 25 Oct 2017 08:47 #773707

  • turboguzzi
  • turboguzzi's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 826
  • Thank you received: 69
congrats, 2 secs off is cool, thing is that next 2 secs will be much harder :)
from my 10 yrs racing i can confirm: you go into the track all charged and raging, youll go slower, go relaxed and youll go faster.
it's a sort of meditation...
The following user(s) said Thank You: echelon

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Kz650 '76 Historic Race Bike 03 Nov 2017 01:14 #774146

  • 1slammedkz650
  • 1slammedkz650's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 19
  • Thank you received: 2
The bike looks great and thanks for sharing your modifications and progress as you go

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Kz650 '76 Historic Race Bike 04 Nov 2017 06:53 #774206

  • TexasKZ
  • TexasKZ's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 3962
  • Thank you received: 789
DISCLAIMER:I likely have no idea what I'm talking about. Please keep in mind how much you have paid for my comments.

In looking at the A/F graph, I wonder if the bigger problem is the needle? At the low end of the rpm I believe the mixture is largely controlled by the pilot circuit. Around 3000 rpm the mixture goes a bit leaner. Isn't this about the time that the carbs are transitioning to the needle? If so, this suggests that the needle is a bit too large at the top.
At around 5500, as the mixture goes suddenly rich. Is that the transition from the needle to the jet? If so, doesn't that suggest that the taper of the needle at the small end is too severe? When fully on the main jet, the mixture levels out only slightly richer than at low rpm.
In my jacked up brain, I am thinking that a needle that smooths out the graph would be the first step, then the task would be to get pilot and main jes that move the whole line to a fatter place.

ymmv
1982 KZ1000 LTD parts donor
1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
2000 ZRX1100 not ridden enough
The following user(s) said Thank You: echelon

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Kz650 '76 Historic Race Bike 13 Nov 2017 06:18 #774538

  • echelon
  • echelon's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 17
  • Thank you received: 12
Thankyou for your excellent (free) analysis!
I am not a mechanic, nor any kind of expert, and just work this stuff out as I go. I'll have a think about what you said, buy some different needles and have a play. For the most part on the track I am in higher revs, but from time to time, coming on power out of a corner, I'm in a slightly flat zone mid revs. That's probably it...
Cheers
Paul...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by echelon.

Kz650 '76 Historic Race Bike 14 Nov 2017 04:20 #774580

  • CoreyClough
  • CoreyClough's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • GPz550 Addiction
  • Posts: 1095
  • Thank you received: 70
Looks like you are having fun, and that is where it all starts out. The clock is your best friend to help lower lap times.
'85 GPz550(ZX550-A2)

GPz550 Base Manual --> tinyurl.com/ze5b3qo
GPz550 Supplement Manual --> tinyurl.com/h34d2o6
GPz550.com --> www.nwsca.com/scripts/gpz_forum_2005/default.asp
First Race Win GPz550 --> tinyurl.com/o5y3ftp

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Kz650 '76 Historic Race Bike 28 Oct 2018 22:49 #792966

  • echelon
  • echelon's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 17
  • Thank you received: 12
I thought I'd update this, as its been a while :) We've just finished another season and the kwakka is still going strong. It turns out that winning championships is about reliability more than anything. Not finishing a race, or crashing out of a day, can take a whole season to recover from, thankfully that only happened once this year.
The changes for 2018 were initially a set of Takasago rims, a 2.5" and 3.5" running a 100/18 and a 130/18. I went with 18 inch rims as I could get Conti Race Attack II CR tyres, which incidentally are excellent on track, and stuck with 18" as I didn't want to mess with the bikes handling too much. In hindsight that may have been a mistake, as if I'd gone 17"s I could run slicks and wets. My times improved as soon as I put the new wheels on, a big difference. At the beginning of the year I did some frame bracing, its not possible to prove whether it made a difference or not, but I think it did. Next came a set of Ikon shocks, which are a budget item but again an improvement over the cheap chinese shock (which lasted 2 years and are still going), and a Delkevic 4 into 1 which sounds great with no baffle :) . Lastly, near the end of the season, I put the bike on a diet. Chopped off the following! Seat 3.65kg (7lbs), a piece of frame 1.6kg (3lbs), a brake disc and caliper 4kgs (8lbs) and lots of little bits. I had to make a new seat, which only added 1kg (2lbs). Last meeting of the year set a PB and a lap record for my small local country track, so very happy with it. Lastly the oil cooler. We measured the crankcase at 125 degrees C after a race, she did not want to idle and I think she was getting too hot. Fitted the oil cooler we had on the shelf, and now she idles after the race, and feels much cooler. The actual cooler was 80 degrees C aftera 15 minute race on a hot day, so all good.
Next year crossing the country in January to race at Phillip Island, the Island Classic. I'll be racing against the unlimiteds, and will probably come last, but will have a crack at it :)
Attachments:
The following user(s) said Thank You: KZB2 650, Wozza

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by echelon.

Kz650 '76 Historic Race Bike 29 Oct 2018 04:22 #792968

  • KZB2 650
  • KZB2 650's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 1387
  • Thank you received: 235
I'll be damn Just went through this again from start to finish on thus or fri and was wondering how things were going....... bike is looking so nice.... nice improvments and good job on the lap record...... Do you have the part number of the rear rim you picked up (always thought about a larger light weight rim but to cheap) I just looked up the website and can't seem to find the info .... also did you happen to record the weight diff between it and the stock medal rim ?
1978 KZ650 b-2
700cc Wiseco kit 10 to 1.
1980 KZ750 cam, ape springs, stock clutch/ Barnett springs.
Vance and Hines Header w/ comp baffle and Ape pods, Dyna S and green coils, copper wires.
29MM smooth bores W/ 17.5 pilots, 0-6s and 117.5 main
16/42 gearing X ring chain and alum rear JT sprocket....
The following user(s) said Thank You: echelon

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by KZB2 650.

Kz650 '76 Historic Race Bike 29 Oct 2018 04:58 #792971

  • CoreyClough
  • CoreyClough's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • GPz550 Addiction
  • Posts: 1095
  • Thank you received: 70
From your posted video above to your most recent video on youtube, it sounds like you are winding it up more, and riding better and smoother than before. Nice!!!


Have you tested other drive sprocket options?

Does you club let you race the longer part of that track?
historicracing.asn.au/our-racetracks/

Keep us updated on your progress.
'85 GPz550(ZX550-A2)

GPz550 Base Manual --> tinyurl.com/ze5b3qo
GPz550 Supplement Manual --> tinyurl.com/h34d2o6
GPz550.com --> www.nwsca.com/scripts/gpz_forum_2005/default.asp
First Race Win GPz550 --> tinyurl.com/o5y3ftp
The following user(s) said Thank You: echelon

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Kz650 '76 Historic Race Bike 29 Oct 2018 05:17 #792972

  • echelon
  • echelon's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 17
  • Thank you received: 12
KZB2 - Sorry, no part numbers or weights for the different wheels. The whole bike weighs in now at 175kg wet, from 219 factory, so it all adds up!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by echelon.

Kz650 '76 Historic Race Bike 29 Oct 2018 05:21 #792974

  • echelon
  • echelon's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 17
  • Thank you received: 12
CoreyClough - At the moment 16/45 sprockets at the Collie short track, and I'll try stock 16/42 at the Island, for the higher speeds. I'm doing a 520 chain conversion, which means having 520 rear aluminium rear sprockets made, AUD$160 each. (Front steel for the conversion to 520 is a JTF565-16). The longer part of the track is still not open, but we hope will be next year. We're told here are 11000 tyres need bolting together for the barriers!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by echelon.

Kz650 '76 Historic Race Bike 29 Oct 2018 12:12 #793023

  • CoreyClough
  • CoreyClough's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • GPz550 Addiction
  • Posts: 1095
  • Thank you received: 70
Sunline , and JT Sprockets have measurements on their site, and you might find another that bolts on. If so they probably already make it in steel and Anodized Aluminum.

Continue to have fun, and you are poking at me to get back out to make a "now legal" KZ/GPz550. For now, I with just watch your progress.
'85 GPz550(ZX550-A2)

GPz550 Base Manual --> tinyurl.com/ze5b3qo
GPz550 Supplement Manual --> tinyurl.com/h34d2o6
GPz550.com --> www.nwsca.com/scripts/gpz_forum_2005/default.asp
First Race Win GPz550 --> tinyurl.com/o5y3ftp

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Kz650 '76 Historic Race Bike 01 Nov 2018 07:32 #793217

  • Wozza
  • Wozza's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 136
  • Thank you received: 30
Wow great read. Congratulations on the short track record and great looking bike. I was at the track a while back and caught a few races when the hcmc were racing. It was a cold wet day so didn't get out of the car just parked up with a view of the back straight and chicane.
This is what I want to do with my bike and I've finally convinced my better half that its a good idea..
Corey is onto it with the sprockets it seems that a lot of Kawasaki s used a 104mm PCD sprocket with a 80mm center hole. I am using a Renthal 520 ultralight alloy sprocket for a 1998-2002 ZX6R
1982 KZ550H1

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Wozza.

Kz650 '76 Historic Race Bike 23 Nov 2018 06:10 #794130

  • echelon
  • echelon's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 17
  • Thank you received: 12

echelon wrote: CoreyClough - At the moment 16/45 sprockets at the Collie short track, and I'll try stock 16/42 at the Island, for the higher speeds. I'm doing a 520 chain conversion, which means having 520 rear aluminium rear sprockets made, AUD$160 each. (Front steel for the conversion to 520 is a JTF565-16). The longer part of the track is still not open, but we hope will be next year. We're told here are 11000 tyres need bolting together for the barriers!


Correction. For the sake of anyone following this, the JTF565 front sprocket is too thin. JTF1309-16 (or 15) is the go.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Kz650 '76 Historic Race Bike 16 Dec 2018 14:33 #795248

  • rstnick
  • rstnick's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 3939
  • Thank you received: 216
Good read.
Congrats on the improved times.
B)
Rob.
CANADA
http://www.kz650.info/

'78 KZ650 C2, 125K kms, Rickman fairing, Delkevic ex, EI, K&N, ATK fork brace, braced swingarm, Progessive, Koni, 18" Z1R front wheel.

'00 ZRX1100, Ohlin's shocks, fork brace, Corbin seat, Gimbel bugspoiler

Need a key for your kz/z? I can make them.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2
Powered by Kunena Forum