81 KZ305 hard starting

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15 Dec 2022 10:21 #877844 by ckahleer
81 KZ305 hard starting was created by ckahleer
The colder it gets, the harder it is to start. In warm weather a cold start only takes a couple turns of the engine. Now that the days are colder (mid 40s hear in Virginia), it takes alot of cranking. To the point I fear wearing out the starter or draining the battery. 
So far I have opened the mixture screws another turn and retarded the timing a couple degrees below spec., but it still takes alot of cranking. The bike starts and runs fine when the engine is warm.
Is there something I can do to the choke or choke plates to increase choking? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

94 KE100
81 CM200t
82 KZ305
85 VF1100c

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15 Dec 2022 12:04 #877847 by Wookie58
Replied by Wookie58 on topic 81 KZ305 hard starting
Try connecting a voltmeter red lead to battery positive black lead to coil positive feed, now crank when cold. You are looking for a reading no higher than 0.5v ( you are measuring the difference between the battery voltage and what gets to the coil)

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15 Dec 2022 14:45 #877852 by Nerdy
Replied by Nerdy on topic 81 KZ305 hard starting
This may be a dumb question, but have you verified that the chokes are actually choking?

A worn and/or bent linkage may prevent the butterflies from closing properly.

1979 KZ400 Gifted to a couple of nephews
1967 Yamaha YCS1 Bonanza
1980 KZ440B
1981 Yamaha XT250H
1981 KZ440 LTD project bike
1981 GPz550
2013 Yamaha FZ6R

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16 Dec 2022 05:33 #877860 by ThatGPzGuy
Replied by ThatGPzGuy on topic 81 KZ305 hard starting
I agree with Nerdy. Is the choke/enrichment circuit functioning properly? I don't know what carb is on the 305 but the Mikuni's are susceptible to poor starting due to the fuel bowl not allowing fuel into the well for the enrichment circuit. 

Jim
North GA
2016 Yamaha FJR1300ES
1982 GPz750 R1
1974 Kawasaki H1
1976 Kawasaki KZ400
1979 Yamaha XS650 cafe'
2001 KZ1000P
2001 Yamaha YZ426
1981 Honda XR200 stroked in an '89 CR125 chassis
1965 Mustang
1967 Triumph GT6
1976 Bronco
"If you didn't build it, it's not really yours"

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16 Dec 2022 08:16 - 16 Dec 2022 08:48 #877874 by ckahleer
Replied by ckahleer on topic 81 KZ305 hard starting
They are Keihin carburetors. I don't know model or size. There is no enricher. Threre is a lever that closes the choke plates.
To eliminate voltage drop, I ran a jumper wire from battery + to coil +. Also jumpered from a car battery. It still would not start with a reasonable amount of cranking.
I will look into choke opperation some more. Maybe not compleatly closing or the hinged door on the plates are not working correct.

Ebay pic of a kz305 choke plate.

94 KE100
81 CM200t
82 KZ305
85 VF1100c
Last edit: 16 Dec 2022 08:48 by ckahleer.

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16 Dec 2022 11:05 #877876 by JR
Replied by JR on topic 81 KZ305 hard starting
A couple of suggestions.

if the bike has not run in a while make sure the float bowl(s) are well primed and have the required level of gas in them.

spray some starter fluid  - Quick Start - Easy Start in the air box. If it fires but wont run then probably a fuel issue. Dont over do it with the starter fluid.

1980 kz750E1, Delkevic exhaust

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17 Dec 2022 10:40 #877908 by ckahleer
Replied by ckahleer on topic 81 KZ305 hard starting
I'm getting somewhere. Two cold mornings in a row now, the bike started easily by blocking the air box intake with a piece of cardboard.
The choke plates are fully closing, but I'm wondering if the springs on the hinged flaps on the choke plates have gotten weak and are opening to easily. Partzilla does not break the carbs down far enough to just get the hinge springs. What is the purpose of those flaps and what may it hurt if I seal them shut?

94 KE100
81 CM200t
82 KZ305
85 VF1100c

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17 Dec 2022 11:09 #877909 by Wookie58
Replied by Wookie58 on topic 81 KZ305 hard starting

I'm getting somewhere. Two cold mornings in a row now, the bike started easily by blocking the air box intake with a piece of cardboard.
The choke plates are fully closing, but I'm wondering if the springs on the hinged flaps on the choke plates have gotten weak and are opening to easily. Partzilla does not break the carbs down far enough to just get the hinge springs. What is the purpose of those flaps and what may it hurt if I seal them shut?
Sealing them shut will probably cause it to stall out, with the flaps closed some air still needs to get in to feed the motor. If they where sealed you would likely need to start backing off the choke too soon to allow the motor to run

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17 Dec 2022 15:03 #877914 by Nessism

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17 Dec 2022 15:47 #877918 by ckahleer
Replied by ckahleer on topic 81 KZ305 hard starting
Right now the pilot screws are open 11/2 turns, but have tried every where between 1/2 and 4.
One thing I neglected to metion, I shimmed the needles up .010" to solve a dead spot on accelerating off idle, 3 years ago when I first got the bike. I haven't been in the carbs since.
The bike has been hard to start when cold ever since I had it, but this year it seems worse. 

94 KE100
81 CM200t
82 KZ305
85 VF1100c

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17 Dec 2022 16:56 #877920 by Nerdy
Replied by Nerdy on topic 81 KZ305 hard starting

I'm getting somewhere. Two cold mornings in a row now, the bike started easily by blocking the air box intake with a piece of cardboard.
The choke plates are fully closing, but I'm wondering if the springs on the hinged flaps on the choke plates have gotten weak and are opening to easily. Partzilla does not break the carbs down far enough to just get the hinge springs. What is the purpose of those flaps and what may it hurt if I seal them shut?
 

If a new spring isn't available, I wonder if adding a small amount of weight to the flap would help. The additional mass would keep it shut a bit more - using gravity rather than spring power - while still letting some air in (which is necessary, as Wookie58 indicated). You might be able to tape a washer to the flap to start; it shouldn't take much weight to change the operation.

1979 KZ400 Gifted to a couple of nephews
1967 Yamaha YCS1 Bonanza
1980 KZ440B
1981 Yamaha XT250H
1981 KZ440 LTD project bike
1981 GPz550
2013 Yamaha FZ6R

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17 Dec 2022 17:19 #877921 by Nessism
Replied by Nessism on topic 81 KZ305 hard starting

Right now the pilot screws are open 11/2 turns, but have tried every where between 1/2 and 4.
One thing I neglected to metion, I shimmed the needles up .010" to solve a dead spot on accelerating off idle, 3 years ago when I first got the bike. I haven't been in the carbs since.
The bike has been hard to start when cold ever since I had it, but this year it seems worse. 
I'd open the pilots to 2.5 turns open.  1.5 is kinda lean.

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