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Cleaning corrosion and prevention
- ThatGPzGuy
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27 Nov 2022 11:00 - 27 Nov 2022 12:02 #877232
by ThatGPzGuy
Jim
North GA
2016 Yamaha FJR1300ES
1982 GPz750 R1
1974 Kawasaki H1
1976 Kawasaki KZ400
1979 Yamaha XS650 cafe'
2001 KZ1000P
2001 Yamaha YZ426
1981 Honda XR200 stroked in an '89 CR125 chassis
1965 Mustang
1967 Triumph GT6
1976 Bronco
"If you didn't build it, it's not really yours"
Cleaning corrosion and prevention was created by ThatGPzGuy
Taking apart the GPz engine and there is white corrosion on the bolts. I know I can wire wheel these clean but is there a way to clean off the corrosion without damaging the coating on the bolts? I assume the way to prevent future corrosion is liberal amounts of anti-seize?
Jim
North GA
2016 Yamaha FJR1300ES
1982 GPz750 R1
1974 Kawasaki H1
1976 Kawasaki KZ400
1979 Yamaha XS650 cafe'
2001 KZ1000P
2001 Yamaha YZ426
1981 Honda XR200 stroked in an '89 CR125 chassis
1965 Mustang
1967 Triumph GT6
1976 Bronco
"If you didn't build it, it's not really yours"
Last edit: 27 Nov 2022 12:02 by ThatGPzGuy.
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- Nerdy
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27 Nov 2022 11:36 #877235
by Nerdy
1979 KZ400 Gifted to a couple of nephews
1967 Yamaha YCS1 Bonanza
1980 KZ440B
1981 Yamaha XT250H
1981 KZ440 LTD project bike
1981 GPz550
2013 Yamaha FZ6R
Replied by Nerdy on topic Cleaning corrosion and prevention
You could try cleaning one with a brass brush (rather than a steel brush). Brass is softer than steel and is less likely to cause damage.
I like to use a brass wheel [in the cordless drill] with longer bristles to clean non-steel parts of the bike, like aluminum surfaces. Longer bristles will flex and will effectively be softer than short bristles.
Folks on this forum and elsewhere have mentioned that using anti-seize will probably cause you to overtighten the bolts. IIRC they were meant to be assembled dry, and the anti-seize acts like a lubricant when tightening so more force is required to achieve the torque spec in the FSM. But you'll want to explore that yourself - my memory isn't always great.
I like to use a brass wheel [in the cordless drill] with longer bristles to clean non-steel parts of the bike, like aluminum surfaces. Longer bristles will flex and will effectively be softer than short bristles.
Folks on this forum and elsewhere have mentioned that using anti-seize will probably cause you to overtighten the bolts. IIRC they were meant to be assembled dry, and the anti-seize acts like a lubricant when tightening so more force is required to achieve the torque spec in the FSM. But you'll want to explore that yourself - my memory isn't always great.
1967 Yamaha YCS1 Bonanza
1980 KZ440B
1981 Yamaha XT250H
1981 KZ440 LTD project bike
1981 GPz550
2013 Yamaha FZ6R
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- Wookie58
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27 Nov 2022 11:39 #877236
by Wookie58
Replied by Wookie58 on topic Cleaning corrosion and prevention
Looking at the amount of rust on those bolts it looks like the coating has already failed, you could clean them off with a wire wheel and then you could "blue" them (a process used by gun makers to prevent corrosion
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- Scirocco
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27 Nov 2022 12:07 - 27 Nov 2022 12:07 #877240
by Scirocco
My 1975 Z 1 B 900 Project
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/605133...ears-deep-sleep-mode
Replied by Scirocco on topic Cleaning corrosion and prevention
I would try carb dip first as a non-abrasive solution.
My 1975 Z 1 B 900 Project
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/605133...ears-deep-sleep-mode
Last edit: 27 Nov 2022 12:07 by Scirocco.
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- Nessism
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27 Nov 2022 14:06 #877248
by Nessism
Replied by Nessism on topic Cleaning corrosion and prevention
The factory finish is zinc, with an olive drab dark chromate dip. A brass wire brush may be useful, but the plating is already damaged, so there is only so much you can do. Personally, if the heads still look okay, I'd wire brush the white corrosion off, then install using grease, or better yet, an anti-corrosion compound. To fix the hardware properly, the old zinc would have to be removed, or at least the black chromate layer, then re-zinc plate everything yet again.
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- ThatGPzGuy
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27 Nov 2022 14:23 #877249
by ThatGPzGuy
Jim
North GA
2016 Yamaha FJR1300ES
1982 GPz750 R1
1974 Kawasaki H1
1976 Kawasaki KZ400
1979 Yamaha XS650 cafe'
2001 KZ1000P
2001 Yamaha YZ426
1981 Honda XR200 stroked in an '89 CR125 chassis
1965 Mustang
1967 Triumph GT6
1976 Bronco
"If you didn't build it, it's not really yours"
Replied by ThatGPzGuy on topic Cleaning corrosion and prevention
Ok. I think I'll just clean off the corrosion as gently as I can. Nessism, what anti-corrosion compound would you recommend?
Jim
North GA
2016 Yamaha FJR1300ES
1982 GPz750 R1
1974 Kawasaki H1
1976 Kawasaki KZ400
1979 Yamaha XS650 cafe'
2001 KZ1000P
2001 Yamaha YZ426
1981 Honda XR200 stroked in an '89 CR125 chassis
1965 Mustang
1967 Triumph GT6
1976 Bronco
"If you didn't build it, it's not really yours"
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- gordone
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27 Nov 2022 14:50 #877252
by gordone
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).
Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine
Replied by gordone on topic Cleaning corrosion and prevention
Could phosphoric acid be a option?
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).
Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine
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- ThatGPzGuy
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27 Nov 2022 15:45 #877258
by ThatGPzGuy
I'm thinking I'll give the 'ol ultrasonic a try too.
Jim
North GA
2016 Yamaha FJR1300ES
1982 GPz750 R1
1974 Kawasaki H1
1976 Kawasaki KZ400
1979 Yamaha XS650 cafe'
2001 KZ1000P
2001 Yamaha YZ426
1981 Honda XR200 stroked in an '89 CR125 chassis
1965 Mustang
1967 Triumph GT6
1976 Bronco
"If you didn't build it, it's not really yours"
Replied by ThatGPzGuy on topic Cleaning corrosion and prevention
It might be. I have some so maybe I'll try it on one of the bolts I'm going to replace. Good call.Could phosphoric acid be a option?
I'm thinking I'll give the 'ol ultrasonic a try too.
Jim
North GA
2016 Yamaha FJR1300ES
1982 GPz750 R1
1974 Kawasaki H1
1976 Kawasaki KZ400
1979 Yamaha XS650 cafe'
2001 KZ1000P
2001 Yamaha YZ426
1981 Honda XR200 stroked in an '89 CR125 chassis
1965 Mustang
1967 Triumph GT6
1976 Bronco
"If you didn't build it, it's not really yours"
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27 Nov 2022 15:48 #877259
by Nessism
Replied by Nessism on topic Cleaning corrosion and prevention
Fluid Film makes an excellent corrosion protector.
Regarding phosphoric acid, it eats zinc. I wouldn't use that stuff unless you want to strip the fasteners down to bare metal.
Regarding phosphoric acid, it eats zinc. I wouldn't use that stuff unless you want to strip the fasteners down to bare metal.
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- linuxrob
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28 Nov 2022 11:57 #877272
by linuxrob
1980 Z500 B2 owned from new 78260 miles
1980 Z500 B2 in bits since 1982 23000 miles
2004 GSF1200S Bandit K4
2000 GS125 ESD
Replied by linuxrob on topic Cleaning corrosion and prevention
Never use any acid to clean these bolts it may result in hydrogen embrittlement and cause the bolt to fail, just lightly clean the threads and install DRY.
1980 Z500 B2 owned from new 78260 miles
1980 Z500 B2 in bits since 1982 23000 miles
2004 GSF1200S Bandit K4
2000 GS125 ESD
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- Nessism
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28 Nov 2022 14:43 #877283
by Nessism
I'm not an expert on this subject, but from what I've read, hydrogen embrittlement is mostly a concern with high strength fasteners,145ksi tensile strength and above, not the type used outside the engine on our KZ bikes.
For example, a Japanese bolt with a "7" on it is roughly the same as a SAE grade 5 fastener (the type with three hash marks on the head,) and those are rated to about 120ksi tensile strength. "9" bolts, similar to SAE grade 8, would be affected, but those are typically limited to things like cam caps, and they are not plated.
And BTW, I've got a Caswell's Plating zinc kit and use acid all the time. Sometimes I'll strip the fasteners in HCl if they are really grungy. If the fastener is in decent shape, I'll sometimes bead blast and wire wheel before plating, to save time. And, actually, I think the plating process itself causes hydrogen embrittlement, far more than the cleaning and pickling process. That's why high strength fasteners like rod bolts, APE engine studs, and similar are black oxide coated. This doesn't damage the metal. Black oxide is crap for rust protection though. That's why GPz's use zinc with chromate black.
Replied by Nessism on topic Cleaning corrosion and prevention
Never use any acid to clean these bolts it may result in hydrogen embrittlement and cause the bolt to fail, just lightly clean the threads and install DRY.
I'm not an expert on this subject, but from what I've read, hydrogen embrittlement is mostly a concern with high strength fasteners,145ksi tensile strength and above, not the type used outside the engine on our KZ bikes.
For example, a Japanese bolt with a "7" on it is roughly the same as a SAE grade 5 fastener (the type with three hash marks on the head,) and those are rated to about 120ksi tensile strength. "9" bolts, similar to SAE grade 8, would be affected, but those are typically limited to things like cam caps, and they are not plated.
And BTW, I've got a Caswell's Plating zinc kit and use acid all the time. Sometimes I'll strip the fasteners in HCl if they are really grungy. If the fastener is in decent shape, I'll sometimes bead blast and wire wheel before plating, to save time. And, actually, I think the plating process itself causes hydrogen embrittlement, far more than the cleaning and pickling process. That's why high strength fasteners like rod bolts, APE engine studs, and similar are black oxide coated. This doesn't damage the metal. Black oxide is crap for rust protection though. That's why GPz's use zinc with chromate black.
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- hardrockminer
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29 Nov 2022 04:28 #877298
by hardrockminer
I have several restored bikes along with a 2006 Goldwing with a sidecar. My wife has a 2019 Suzuki DR 650 for on and off road.
Replied by hardrockminer on topic Cleaning corrosion and prevention
I don't think hydrogen embrittlement would occur. From what I remember from my university courses in welding technology hydrogen embrittlement occurs when a welder uses a damp rod while welding steel. That's why they use warming ovens for welding rods. Our prof had a famous story about a welder on a nuclear power project that stored his polish sausage in the welding warming oven to heat it for lunch, causing the rods to become damp.
I have several restored bikes along with a 2006 Goldwing with a sidecar. My wife has a 2019 Suzuki DR 650 for on and off road.
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