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Problem with engine oil filter flange!
- Claude.
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30 Mar 2022 10:55 - 30 Mar 2022 11:46 #864540
by Claude.
2017 Versys 1000
1982 KZ1000J2
1983 KZ1000J3
1982 GPZ1100
1983 KZ750L
1982 KZ1000J2 (another one!)
2017 Yamaha FZ07
Problem with engine oil filter flange! was created by Claude.
Last Sunday, I started up (for the first time), the KZ 1000J3 project I'm working on. After about 5 seconds, I got a huge mess of engine oil as the oil filter flange's o-ring blew out. I re-installed the same o-ring, thinking I installed it incorrectly. Same oil mess.
I took a new o-ring and re-did the installation. Once again, same oil mess caused by an o-ring blow out.
Those two o-rings are jobber's (as in they came in the box with jobber oil filter). So, I called local Kawasaki dealer to order OEM o-ring (# 671B2590). Received them today and did the installation again. Engine started, no oil loss and then; "crack"!! and immediate oil loss.
Look under the engine and the oil filter flange broke in two!!! Prior to this KZ, I rode Kawasakis during more than 35 years with the same setup and never did have this problem! Took some pictures (below), trying to get some help / info / comments from you guys.
Looks that are no porosity in both flange's halves so no weak point. Laying the halves against a straight edge, I see a slight dish shape so the previous owner maybe over torqued it (I always use a torque wrench).
I think the flange is the cause or (unlikely), the oil pressure is so high that it deformed the flange…
Someone ever got this problem?
Many thanks!
[img] live.staticflickr.com/65535/51971817404_3330410c75_b.jpg[/img ]
[img] live.staticflickr.com/65535/51970525527_db5685543b.jpg[/img ]
[img] live.staticflickr.com/65535/51971817379_7f802e4f13_b.jpg[/img ]
[img] live.staticflickr.com/65535/51970525497_9c82ced855_c.jpg[/img ]
I took a new o-ring and re-did the installation. Once again, same oil mess caused by an o-ring blow out.
Those two o-rings are jobber's (as in they came in the box with jobber oil filter). So, I called local Kawasaki dealer to order OEM o-ring (# 671B2590). Received them today and did the installation again. Engine started, no oil loss and then; "crack"!! and immediate oil loss.
Look under the engine and the oil filter flange broke in two!!! Prior to this KZ, I rode Kawasakis during more than 35 years with the same setup and never did have this problem! Took some pictures (below), trying to get some help / info / comments from you guys.
Looks that are no porosity in both flange's halves so no weak point. Laying the halves against a straight edge, I see a slight dish shape so the previous owner maybe over torqued it (I always use a torque wrench).
I think the flange is the cause or (unlikely), the oil pressure is so high that it deformed the flange…
Someone ever got this problem?
Many thanks!
[img] live.staticflickr.com/65535/51971817404_3330410c75_b.jpg[/img ]
[img] live.staticflickr.com/65535/51970525527_db5685543b.jpg[/img ]
[img] live.staticflickr.com/65535/51971817379_7f802e4f13_b.jpg[/img ]
[img] live.staticflickr.com/65535/51970525497_9c82ced855_c.jpg[/img ]
2017 Versys 1000
1982 KZ1000J2
1983 KZ1000J3
1982 GPZ1100
1983 KZ750L
1982 KZ1000J2 (another one!)
2017 Yamaha FZ07
Last edit: 30 Mar 2022 11:46 by Street Fighter LTD.
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- Injected
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30 Mar 2022 11:42 - 30 Mar 2022 12:00 #864541
by Injected
Replied by Injected on topic Problem with engine oil filter flange!
That is a very rare failure on that part, never seen it before. I believe the issue was not the O rings fault but a original bad casting failure due to internal casting porosity. Porosity can be on the micro spectrum (can only been seen under a microscope) and can cause cracking as shown if it is in the majority of the cross section where there are stress risers (sub optimal design issue) I see some dark spots on the third picture that look like porosity to me, it is hard to tell due to the picture quality. You also have some bash marks on both sides where the cracking occurred, that may have set off the crack to happen because that area was weakened by the existing porosity.
I use to work in the Magnesium casting industry and have seen a lot of this type of failure and it is due to poor casting techniques and bad fill/venting on the mold cavity. Not all parts would have this fault, it might be caused by a variety of machine settings during a production run. The only way to eliminate bad parts is by testing or X-ray. You just happened to get a bad part that did not fail until it had some age on it.
This could also have been exasperated by corrosion, both internal and external at a microscopic level.
You need to recognize that the casting in question is 40 years old. Die cast technology is much better and material selection is much better these days.
I would look for a good used replacement, welding that part then machining to be flat is more money than a used part.
I use to work in the Magnesium casting industry and have seen a lot of this type of failure and it is due to poor casting techniques and bad fill/venting on the mold cavity. Not all parts would have this fault, it might be caused by a variety of machine settings during a production run. The only way to eliminate bad parts is by testing or X-ray. You just happened to get a bad part that did not fail until it had some age on it.
This could also have been exasperated by corrosion, both internal and external at a microscopic level.
You need to recognize that the casting in question is 40 years old. Die cast technology is much better and material selection is much better these days.
I would look for a good used replacement, welding that part then machining to be flat is more money than a used part.
Last edit: 30 Mar 2022 12:00 by Injected.
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- Claude.
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30 Mar 2022 12:45 #864544
by Claude.
2017 Versys 1000
1982 KZ1000J2
1983 KZ1000J3
1982 GPZ1100
1983 KZ750L
1982 KZ1000J2 (another one!)
2017 Yamaha FZ07
Replied by Claude. on topic Problem with engine oil filter flange!
I just found the cause!!
A plug is installed in the small housing under the carbs!
This is the remaining of a Lockhart oil cooler.
A plug is installed in the small housing under the carbs!
This is the remaining of a Lockhart oil cooler.
2017 Versys 1000
1982 KZ1000J2
1983 KZ1000J3
1982 GPZ1100
1983 KZ750L
1982 KZ1000J2 (another one!)
2017 Yamaha FZ07
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- Dr. Gamma
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30 Mar 2022 13:28 #864548
by Dr. Gamma
1972 H2 750 Cafe Racer built in 1974.
1976 KH400 Production Road Racer.
1979 Kz1000 MK. II Old AMA/WERA Superbike.
1986 RG500G 2 stroke terror.
1986 GSXR750RG The one with the clutch that rattles!
Up in the hills near Prescott, Az.
Replied by Dr. Gamma on topic Problem with engine oil filter flange!
Glad you found the problem. Funny thing someone else had the very same problem on facebook.
1972 H2 750 Cafe Racer built in 1974.
1976 KH400 Production Road Racer.
1979 Kz1000 MK. II Old AMA/WERA Superbike.
1986 RG500G 2 stroke terror.
1986 GSXR750RG The one with the clutch that rattles!
Up in the hills near Prescott, Az.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Claude.
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- Scirocco
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30 Mar 2022 13:48 - 30 Mar 2022 13:49 #864549
by Scirocco
My 1975 Z 1 B 900 Project
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/605133...ears-deep-sleep-mode
Replied by Scirocco on topic Problem with engine oil filter flange!
Never seen a plug like this in the oil pressure switch housing. Looks like some stupid mechanic try to rise the oil pressure and block the oil port to the cam bearings. This plug looks like a rubber well nut for the wind screen.
My 1975 Z 1 B 900 Project
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/605133...ears-deep-sleep-mode
Last edit: 30 Mar 2022 13:49 by Scirocco.
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- Wookie58
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30 Mar 2022 14:44 #864557
by Wookie58
Replied by Wookie58 on topic Problem with engine oil filter flange!
I guess at some point it ran an external oil feed to the head and cooler. Take the positives from it Claude, your oil pump is a monster and the rest of the seals must be good or it would be like a lawn sprinkler
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31 Mar 2022 09:13 - 31 Mar 2022 09:14 #864615
by Claude.
Once again, a thousand thanks to you!!
Today, I received the new filter cover (ordered yesterday!!) and I should be able to finish this part of my project. Quite some more remains to do but I'm happy to end that task.
Thanks again!!
2017 Versys 1000
1982 KZ1000J2
1983 KZ1000J3
1982 GPZ1100
1983 KZ750L
1982 KZ1000J2 (another one!)
2017 Yamaha FZ07
Replied by Claude. on topic Problem with engine oil filter flange!
Not the same username but by the avatar, I suspect that you're the guy that posted the answer on Facebook!Glad you found the problem. Funny thing someone else had the very same problem on facebook.
Once again, a thousand thanks to you!!
Today, I received the new filter cover (ordered yesterday!!) and I should be able to finish this part of my project. Quite some more remains to do but I'm happy to end that task.
Thanks again!!
2017 Versys 1000
1982 KZ1000J2
1983 KZ1000J3
1982 GPZ1100
1983 KZ750L
1982 KZ1000J2 (another one!)
2017 Yamaha FZ07
Last edit: 31 Mar 2022 09:14 by Claude..
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31 Mar 2022 09:18 - 31 Mar 2022 09:20 #864616
by Claude.
Strangely enough, among my spare parts, I do have another "oil housing" that have the same rubber plug in the same hole. It also comes off a bike that had an aftermarket oil cooler on it.
2017 Versys 1000
1982 KZ1000J2
1983 KZ1000J3
1982 GPZ1100
1983 KZ750L
1982 KZ1000J2 (another one!)
2017 Yamaha FZ07
Replied by Claude. on topic Problem with engine oil filter flange!
Scirocco, this plug looks to be part of the aftermarket oil cooler (Lockhart) that was installed on this bike when I bought it. It is said to block this passage to redirect the oil flow through the galley plug on the RH side of the engine where one of the oil cooler line need to be installed.Never seen a plug like this in the oil pressure switch housing. Looks like some stupid mechanic try to rise the oil pressure and block the oil port to the cam bearings. This plug looks like a rubber well nut for the wind screen.
Strangely enough, among my spare parts, I do have another "oil housing" that have the same rubber plug in the same hole. It also comes off a bike that had an aftermarket oil cooler on it.
2017 Versys 1000
1982 KZ1000J2
1983 KZ1000J3
1982 GPZ1100
1983 KZ750L
1982 KZ1000J2 (another one!)
2017 Yamaha FZ07
Last edit: 31 Mar 2022 09:20 by Claude..
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31 Mar 2022 09:23 - 31 Mar 2022 09:24 #864617
by Claude.
Also, I think the plug avoided any oil circulation so the seals possibly have not been "tested". But yes, I do think the oil pump works "OK"...
2017 Versys 1000
1982 KZ1000J2
1983 KZ1000J3
1982 GPZ1100
1983 KZ750L
1982 KZ1000J2 (another one!)
2017 Yamaha FZ07
Replied by Claude. on topic Problem with engine oil filter flange!
LOL!! Honestly, a lot of oil splashed around in my three attempts to start the engine, before I've been guided to the cause. I'm quite happy there was not a sprinkler above all that mess!!I guess at some point it ran an external oil feed to the head and cooler. Take the positives from it Claude, your oil pump is a monster and the rest of the seals must be good or it would be like a lawn sprinkler
Also, I think the plug avoided any oil circulation so the seals possibly have not been "tested". But yes, I do think the oil pump works "OK"...
2017 Versys 1000
1982 KZ1000J2
1983 KZ1000J3
1982 GPZ1100
1983 KZ750L
1982 KZ1000J2 (another one!)
2017 Yamaha FZ07
Last edit: 31 Mar 2022 09:24 by Claude..
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