Bought a '77 KZ650 w/out papers in Quebec. Parts bike or can I plate it?

Went for a short drive the other day to purchase a cheap 1977 KZ650 bike from a local fellow.

Full disclosure that it had no papers and he was concerned that the engine might even be seized from sitting all these years in the shed.

Its filthy but the wiring harness is in great shape as is the tank save for a small dent.

I pulled the plugs and poured some diesel oil and by next morning it turned over with a gentle tug of a 17mm wrench.

Carbs will certainly need a rebuild, though they still open and close with the throttle cable.

Now the million dollar question to all fellow Quebec riders, have you ever managed to register and plate a bike that was purchased without papers?

At best I have my next project (I have heaps of spare bodywork, tanks, seat etc) to get this bike rolling quickly and at worse another parts bike to sell off.

Did the guy you purchase the bike from lost the paper or was lost before him? If it is your seller, I'm pretty sure he can go to the SAAQ and get a new ownership for a small fee. Worth a call for sure. In Ontario if you have a bill of sale and info from your seller (as much as you can), and a piece of paper saying to the best of his/your knowledge this bike is not stolen you can get papers.

I can did out what you need, in Ontario anyway, if you want and see if this will work as your last resort.

So there is hope, don’t give up yet!

JL

The bike in the picture is not a 1977.  It is a 1978.  If the seller thinks it is a 1977 are you positive he owned it legally?   Ed

The  VIN sticker on the triple tree shows 7/77 so it is indeed a 78 model.

The seller stated that it was from a friend and assured me that it was not stolen.

I have his full name, address and phone number and told him that I intended to try and have it plated. 

I have heard conflicting directions in regards to this route. Some say to restore to its full glory and pass inspection here in Quebec. And with those inspection papers then seek out a proper title. I find that a hell of a gamble to sink time and money into a bike that may after all be stolen or VGA etc.

I will head down to my local DMV (or SAAQ as they call it here) and start asking questions this week.



 

There are a number of Canadian sites to check serial numbers.  This is probably the best one.

app.cpic-cipc.ca/English/searchformvin.cfm

I am in similar circumstances with my '78 650.  Here in BC, if you cannot find the previous registered owner you can still get a reg by showing a bill of sale and a sworn affidavit in front of a justice of the peace.  I've never done it but plan to do so when my build is a roller.

Here in Alberta, a title doesn’t mean much. So long as the bill of sale is signed by the seller and the buyer, you’re pretty much good to go. Vehicles can change hands 5 times in Alberta before someone registers it with nary a problem.

They just haven't been stopped by the police officer.  I know that locales differ but any motor vehicle that has switched ownership even a couple of times is going to generate interest from a police officer that stops it on the road.  In my state anyway if you have a vehicle on the street and it is passed ownership by more than a day or two you will no doubt be officially notified that it is illegal.  One must transfer the title immediately in Wisconsin upon an ownership change or at least it used to be that way when I was still in the game.  Having said that, one can find out pretty fast if a vehicle is stolen or not by having your local police department run the VIN for you and the engine number.  If it is hot they will let you know PDQ.  You can generally obtain a lost title if you can figure out where the vehicle was last titled.  And as has been said you may need a sworn/notarized statement from the previous owner attesting to the fact he simply lost the title.  Things get a bit muddy if none of this works for you, but in my state you can apply for a "WIS" number that the state issues and you attach the number to your bike/vehicle, but the vehicle must be inspected before one is issued the WIS number.  No doubt things are different in Canada but I doubt it is that much different.  The government likes to be kept abreast of who owns what vehicle(s).  Obviously the biggest issue is a numbers check to make sure nothing comes back stolen.

Rick H.

I think things are quite a bit different in Canada. Or at least in Alberta. I wouldn't think twice about purchasing an untitled vehicle here. This can be great for buyers, but unfortunately it is also great for thieves.

You're right Rick, a vehicle that's on the street that's changed ownership needs to be registered by the new owner right away, but sometimes a vehicle may never touch the street between owners, and therefore never gets registered. It may be a farm truck that several owners use only for driving across the field, or a truck that someone bought and never did anything with before selling. If it never hit the road, it never got registered. Once someone decides to put it on the road, they've registered the vehicle by showing the registry office the bill of sale. Police no longer care. All they care about is that that vehicle is registered to that owner. They aren't pulling up ownership history.

Here in BC they charge you tax on a used motorcycle purchase.  It's 12% of the sale price, so many people don't bother to register until they're ready to put the bike on the road.  

A few years ago I bought a KZ1000 in Alberta and rebuilt it.  It had previously been registered in Alberta, but I still had a problem transferring the reg to BC because the name on the bill of sale was slightly different than the name on the previous reg.  The seller's two given names were reversed, and BC would not accept it.

Here in Ontario they make it so hard that a lot of people give up. Every time I have tried to register without a correct ownership they shut you down. If the ownership papers are not in the sellers name they make you go thru a search process for the last registered name since the bike could be stolen. The times I have successfully done this you need to make a affidavit and get a notary to sign it stating you looked for that missing owner. Its a bit of a hassle that some people can't handle. I have found its best to only buy bikes with valid ownership papers.

This may not work in Canada, but it worked for us in KY on a no-title '73 Z1 barn find we bought from a trusted guy in Oregon.  PO had passed years before, estate closed, last registered in Washington state circa 1984.

Very briefly, the process in KY was:
KY LEO inspects VIN# & signs document(s) indicating VIN# inspection was completed.
Have notarized BOS from seller with both seller and buyer contact info stating price paid.
Send all signed/certified/notarized docs either to contact shown below or, if you wish to DIY, directly to VT, including VT tax.
VT approves docs, sends VT registration plate and papers to purchaser.
Purchaser takes VT registration to KY DMV.  KY issues new title.

Start to finish, the whole process took ~2 mo., from visit by LEO for VIN inspection to KY title in hand.  We spent far more time trying to search out PO's info, chasing DMV and estate records in WA, investigating many dead end leads.

Considering we were dealing with a '73 Z1, the cost outlay was miniscule compared to increase in value over purchase price resulting from having a title.

www.nobullusedmotorcycleparts.com/titles
Owner's name is Bob Conger.  He's become a fixture at Mid-Ohio VMD.  We met him there years ago when he acquired vendor spots next to us in the swap meet.  Stand up guy.  Navy Vet.  Family business based in NY.  He may have experience with titles in Canada.

Good Ridin'
slmjim & Z1BEBE