Major cam timing screw up
- notalec
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Major cam timing screw up
11 Aug 2017 12:41
So I am working on a 79 KZ650. Everything was going great. Got a fresh hone, valve seals, valve grind, new gaskets, all the good stuff.
I went to start it up for the first time and I got nothing. Everything sounded like it was spinning good. But not even a sputter. Checked the compression and got 0. nada. Ziltch. Double checked the cam timing and noticed it was on the 2.3 mark and NOT the 1.4 mark. So I retimed the cams, double checked the valve clearance for good measure and put it back together. This time it will start up but it runs poorly. it won't stay idling and it backfires. Sometimes out of the exhaust and sometimes out of the carbs. I bent valves didn't I? I had read somewhere that this was not an interference motor. But I am starting to think I screwed the pooch on this one.
I went to start it up for the first time and I got nothing. Everything sounded like it was spinning good. But not even a sputter. Checked the compression and got 0. nada. Ziltch. Double checked the cam timing and noticed it was on the 2.3 mark and NOT the 1.4 mark. So I retimed the cams, double checked the valve clearance for good measure and put it back together. This time it will start up but it runs poorly. it won't stay idling and it backfires. Sometimes out of the exhaust and sometimes out of the carbs. I bent valves didn't I? I had read somewhere that this was not an interference motor. But I am starting to think I screwed the pooch on this one.
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- Scirocco
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Re: Major cam timing screw up
11 Aug 2017 13:38 - 11 Aug 2017 13:40
Looks like you have to pull the head again. A bend valve(s) is possible.
After a correct cam timing you have to turn the engine by hand slowly to feel any resistance by valve / piston collision.
One turn with the starter motor and all your work is scrap metal if the timing don´t match.
Removing the spark plugs and look into the cylinder #1 to verify that the piston don´t hit the valve when turning the engine.
Michael
After a correct cam timing you have to turn the engine by hand slowly to feel any resistance by valve / piston collision.
One turn with the starter motor and all your work is scrap metal if the timing don´t match.
Removing the spark plugs and look into the cylinder #1 to verify that the piston don´t hit the valve when turning the engine.
Michael
My 1975 Z 1 B 900 Project
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/605133...ears-deep-sleep-mode
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/605133...ears-deep-sleep-mode
Last edit: 11 Aug 2017 13:40 by Scirocco.
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- KZB2 650
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Re: Major cam timing screw up
11 Aug 2017 13:44
Bent valves should show up with approx double the valve clearance that you had before and very low to 0 on compression.
1978 KZ650 b-2
700cc Wiseco kit 10 to 1.
1980 KZ750 cam, ape springs, stock clutch/ Barnett springs.
Vance and Hines Header w/ comp baffle and Ape pods, Dyna S and green coils, copper wires.
29MM smooth bores W/ 17.5 pilots, 0-6s and 117.5 main
16/42 gearing X ring chain and alum rear JT sprocket.
700cc Wiseco kit 10 to 1.
1980 KZ750 cam, ape springs, stock clutch/ Barnett springs.
Vance and Hines Header w/ comp baffle and Ape pods, Dyna S and green coils, copper wires.
29MM smooth bores W/ 17.5 pilots, 0-6s and 117.5 main
16/42 gearing X ring chain and alum rear JT sprocket.
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- notalec
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Re: Major cam timing screw up
11 Aug 2017 13:50 - 11 Aug 2017 13:50
Valve clearance all checked out after I retimed everything. I checked #4 compression real quick on a stone cold motor and got 120 after a few short cranks I am about to leave the office. I am going to check compression on all 4 and do a poor mans leak down with just some air compression and my ears. We will see.......
Last edit: 11 Aug 2017 13:50 by notalec.
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- Scirocco
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Re: Major cam timing screw up
11 Aug 2017 14:02 - 11 Aug 2017 14:05
Check the piston dome valve pockets for punch marks by the valves disk through the spark plug hole.
My 1975 Z 1 B 900 Project
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/605133...ears-deep-sleep-mode
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/605133...ears-deep-sleep-mode
Last edit: 11 Aug 2017 14:05 by Scirocco.
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- SWest
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Re: Major cam timing screw up
11 Aug 2017 14:44KZB2 650 wrote: Bent valves should show up with approx double the valve clearance that you had before and very low to 0 on compression.
I would be obvious. When I did that I could see light under the cams. If it happened now would be the time for a three angle valve grind, valves, etc. That's what I did in 87. This time around all I had to do was new valves lap them and seals.
Steve
Z1b1000 1975 Z1b
kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229
kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229
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- notalec
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Re: Major cam timing screw up
11 Aug 2017 15:01 - 11 Aug 2017 15:24
Something is not right.
Compression is 90 90 90 90 on a stone cold motor. Quick and dirty leak down test went well on 1 3 and 4. But get this. When I fill 2 will compressed air it comes out of the spark plug hole for 1. That's super not good. What on earth could be causing that?
Edit: just redid the compression test with a few drops of oil and got 130 across the board.
Edit 2: if I put the 2-3 timing mark on "f" instead of "t" then #2 does great on the cheapo leak down test.
Compression is 90 90 90 90 on a stone cold motor. Quick and dirty leak down test went well on 1 3 and 4. But get this. When I fill 2 will compressed air it comes out of the spark plug hole for 1. That's super not good. What on earth could be causing that?
Edit: just redid the compression test with a few drops of oil and got 130 across the board.
Edit 2: if I put the 2-3 timing mark on "f" instead of "t" then #2 does great on the cheapo leak down test.
Last edit: 11 Aug 2017 15:24 by notalec.
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Re: Major cam timing screw up
11 Aug 2017 16:03 - 11 Aug 2017 16:11
If my logic is right the leak down test air on #2 ( light bend ex valve ) flows back over exhaust system through the open #1 exhaust valve back into #1 combustion camber.
I could be wrong but nothing else should effect this,,except a blown head gasket.
I could be wrong but nothing else should effect this,,except a blown head gasket.
My 1975 Z 1 B 900 Project
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/605133...ears-deep-sleep-mode
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/605133...ears-deep-sleep-mode
Last edit: 11 Aug 2017 16:11 by Scirocco.
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- Nessism
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Re: Major cam timing screw up
11 Aug 2017 17:23
The valve clearances will tell the story if the valves are bent. No way to bend a valve and have the clearance same as before.
Ed
Carb O-ring Kits : www.kzrider.com/forum/14-vendor-forum/62...rburetor-o-ring-kits
www.kzrider.com/forum/faq-wiki/618026-new-owner-things-to-know
1981 KZ750E2
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/604901...z750e-project-thread
Carb O-ring Kits : www.kzrider.com/forum/14-vendor-forum/62...rburetor-o-ring-kits
www.kzrider.com/forum/faq-wiki/618026-new-owner-things-to-know
1981 KZ750E2
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/604901...z750e-project-thread
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Re: Major cam timing screw up
12 Aug 2017 07:41
If you initially set the timing on the 2-3 marks this puts the timing 180 degrees out and the pistons nowhere near the valves so you have no chance of bending any valve.
AIR CORRECTOR JETS FOR VM CARBS AND ETHANOL RESISTANT VITON CHOKE PLUNGER SEAL REPLACMENT FOR ALL CLASSIC AND MODERN MOTORCYCLE CARBURETTORS
www.kzrider.com/forum/23-for-sale/611992...lide-mikunis?start=1
www.kzrider.com/forum/23-for-sale/611992...lide-mikunis?start=1
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- notalec
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Re: Major cam timing screw up
12 Aug 2017 08:56
Yeah, I don't think anything is bent. I did all of my valve clearance adjustments while it was set at the 2-3 mark and I only turned it by hand while making the adjustments. I never felt anything. Would I even be able to bend a valve by hand? I had the valve seats reground so the clearances were SUPER tight. But I got some smaller shims that put it right in spec.
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Re: Major cam timing screw up
12 Aug 2017 10:18
Did you fully break down the carbs, remove all the parts, and soak all the metal parts in carb dip? Replace all the various O-rings? Verify all jets are the factory parts (unless your bike is modified)?
Ed
Carb O-ring Kits : www.kzrider.com/forum/14-vendor-forum/62...rburetor-o-ring-kits
www.kzrider.com/forum/faq-wiki/618026-new-owner-things-to-know
1981 KZ750E2
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/604901...z750e-project-thread
Carb O-ring Kits : www.kzrider.com/forum/14-vendor-forum/62...rburetor-o-ring-kits
www.kzrider.com/forum/faq-wiki/618026-new-owner-things-to-know
1981 KZ750E2
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/604901...z750e-project-thread
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