Bad oil?

This story has 2 parts to it:

Yesterday I just had a great evening ride and when I came home....checked my oil level and saw the glass was completely full.....of what looked like pale ice cream. Changed the oil and filter....came out looking very good.....no metal shavings, no ice cream looking stuff....just used oil. Confused, I then took off the clutch cover and found this stuff that looked like pale cream in color and consistency....
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any ideas? One thing I thought of was that maybe water got into the motor somehow through the crancase vent but I don't think so.....next I thought maybe the oil got whipped up by the clutch plates ????
Anybody ever had this happen?


Part 2 of this saga was I took off the clutch plates and cleaned them off and discovered that all the edges of the friction plates had sharp edges on all the tabs......I then thought that it would be a good idea to gently file the edges off those tabs.....put all the plates back in....filled upwith fresh oil .......I always use Rotella T .......and went for another ride......cold moonlit night.....absolutely magic !!!!!!
Clutch seemed to shift and engage considerably better. Not sure whether it was all in the mind or did it actually work.....thoughts anyone??

A tad too-much moonshine, I''d say.:whistle:

Cleaning up any ridges and roughness on the plate tags and basket fingers is the proven way to improve the smooth actuation of the clutch .
The white creamy deposit in the oil is nicknamed Mayonnaise and is the result of water vapour from the atmosphere mixing with the oil.
It is caused by running the bike in cold weather when the air is dense and loaded with moisture or from short starts where the engine is not allowed to fully warm up and evaporate the vapour.
It's no mystery and is common but doesn't explain and isn't the cause of the over full oil level.
Maybe you simply over filled it and didn't notice or probably had the bike on a slightly different angle when checking the level.

That sir is water in your oil. Good idea on the clutch plates.

Thank you all......Zed I am pretty careful on oil fills. Came up with a system of checking where I have a specific wood block that holds the bike up at a consistant angle of just before it tips over so that when I fill / check levels it is always the same, then for safety I made a corresponding block I tuck into the fill side so the bike doesn't tip over onto me. I fill to just below halfway between the two register marks that way when the bike is truly level the oil never overfills......the water vapor issue never occured to me and it now stands to reason as I live in a pretty rainy environment.....I will just have to ride it to work the long way round to get the motor nice and hot (insert very evil grin here) especially when I am running that moonshine stuff....er I mean enjoying a moonlit ride

edit: for Zed: Thinking about the full level....that "mayonnaise" was pretty thick and stayed in the glass level when I took off the clutch cover....also how does one get that stuff out of the motor? Can it get hot enough to get rid of the water vapor?

bluezbike wrote: edit: for Zed: Thinking about the full level....that "mayonnaise" was pretty thick and stayed in the glass level when I took off the clutch cover....also how does one get that stuff out of the motor? Can it get hot enough to get rid of the water vapor?

I'd bet that if you measure your old oil it's the correct amount and the mayo on the window gave a deceptive level reading.
Not much you can do about the oil apart from to get the motor good and hot and make sure your breathers are clear.
It won't really do any harm as It separates out of the oil and most of it gathers around the clutch cover as this is a cool spot where it condensates and to a lesser degree in the cam cover.

What you need to do is get that thing off the coast for a while and ride on my side of WA state when the temps are up. What you are seeing is the first stage of sludge. I've seen the condensation in my oil window. It was more from cold starts and short runs in the winter. The condensation went away after a good hard run on a nice day. Of course our idea of a nice day differs. At 50 degrees you guys are going out on picnics while the east side people are still putting coats on. A nice day on the east side makes those from the west side melt.

This is the function of a good motor oil to catch all the dirt and moisture,it is normally in cold weather condition and a lot of cold starts with low distance riding. The moisture vaporized after on a long distance drive when the engine can go to the optimal temperature.

Michael

bluezbike wrote: Thinking about the full level....that "mayonnaise" was pretty thick and stayed in the glass level when I took off the clutch cover....also how does one get that stuff out of the motor? Can it get hot enough to get rid of the water vapor?

At a local shop we saw many examples like this of moisture contamination in motor oil, especially in the spring. This was the result of thinking that start/idle for five minutes a few times during the winter is a "good thing". It is not.

A byproduct of combustion is water vapor. Cold piston rings do not seal well, especially at idle. Combustion byproducts blowing past the rings condense in the crankcase and collect in the oil. If the oil becomes saturated with condensed water vapor it precipitates out and collects onto cold surfaces such as clutch covers, resulting in the milky buildup referred to here as "mayonnaise". If you test the ph of "mayonnaise" it will be acidic.

Another byproduct of combustion is sulfur dioxide. When water condensation and sulfur dioxide combine in the crankcase and mixes in oil it creates dilute sulfuric acid. This can damage bearing and other surfaces.

The oil in a crankcase represents a significant thermal mass; that is, significant time and energy is required to warm the oil to operating temperature. A general consensus is that oil will not warm enough to even begin to vaporize moisture and other volatiles unless the motor has run under load for 20 - 30 miles. This is why frequent oil changes are recommended for short-trip operation. Repeated partial warmup cycles of start/idle five minutes/stop will only serve to concentrate condensed contaminants in the oil and crankcase.

The milky buildup is very tenacious. No amount of operation at normal temps even with fresh oil will remove it completely. Manual cleaning using solvents is effective. The only effective way we've ever found to completely remove it from sight glass is with a cotton swab and solvent, such as alcohol or carb cleaner.

Good Ridin'
slmjim & Z1BEBE

Your oil has to get above 220 F to evaporate any water in the system. If it doesn't get this high you get creamy oil. Chris