1982 KZ440-D Belt LTD metal in oil pan and screen

Hi! I just found this site and I am hoping someone has had this problem with a cheap solution! I changed the oil in a newly acquired 440 and found about an ounce of metal in the screen and oil drain pan! I bought the bike no return, as-is, but the seller drove it 50 miles to deliver it to my home. It runs fine, shifts fine thru all the gears, but I do notice a slight grinding sound from the tranny when the engine is not running and I am pushing the bike forward or backward in neutral in my garage. The metal in the oil I know is serious, but I am hoping the bike had an upper end problem in the past that was fixed and I am looking at old metal from that in the cases. What do you think I should do with this engine? Tear it apart and fix it? Take the easy route and replace it with a used working engine? Trade it in? Are these belt drives a bit noisy in the tranny when pushing them? I would think it should be silent. I just changed the oil and put in 0W-40W full synthetic...could that be why I have the noisy tranny when pushing it? Thanks ahead of time for any solutions to this problem.

Use motorcycle specific oil in motorcycles.
Find another engine, because you just got the very short end of the stick.


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TimKz44082 wrote: Hi! I just found this site and I am hoping someone has had this problem with a cheap solution! I changed the oil in a newly acquired 440 and found about an ounce of metal in the screen and oil drain pan! I bought the bike no return, as-is, but the seller drove it 50 miles to deliver it to my home. It runs fine, shifts fine thru all the gears, but I do notice a slight grinding sound from the tranny when the engine is not running and I am pushing the bike forward or backward in neutral in my garage. The metal in the oil I know is serious, but I am hoping the bike had an upper end problem in the past that was fixed and I am looking at old metal from that in the cases. What do you think I should do with this engine? Tear it apart and fix it? Take the easy route and replace it with a used working engine? Trade it in? Are these belt drives a bit noisy in the tranny when pushing them? I would think it should be silent. I just changed the oil and put in 0W-40W full synthetic...could that be why I have the noisy tranny when pushing it? .

specified oil for these old bikes is 10-40 or 20-50 for extreme heat. I wouldn't put 0-XX in a lawn mower.

I would at least flush the engine and replace with proper oil. Run it and see what happens. If there's a problem, it will show up.

Forgive me for asking, but inquiring minds want to know -

What possessed you to put 0W-40W oil in a KZ-anything? :S Ed

The metal you found, is it magnetic? Alloy? What? Got any pictures?
I found some stuff the first time I pulled the pan on my K2, and it was a Alloy Ring Pull from a Can of oil additive. Somehow the PO had gotten it into and down the filler. Looked pretty bad at first, then it was better once I found out what it was.
So try to decipher what type of metal it is, what it might be from etc.

Thanks for the welcome...I need to do an intro in the intro section when I find it and get to it. I put the 00-40 synthetic in there because it is synthetic and the current daily temp here in florida is about 92, I drained it all out to see if there was some more metal in it and found none. I guess I cleaned it out pretty good the first time. The first time I pulled the oil screen, reached my finger up over the lip where the screen sets and found all the scrap metal, aluminum, not magnetic. It was just shattered aluminum, enough to pile up about 1/4" onto a silver dollar. I am hoping that maybe a piston shattered in the past and the top was pulled, replaced the piston and put the top back on without completely cleaning out the inner cases. I don't know of anything aluminum in the gearbox except the case itself. Is there anything aluminum in there? I will be putting in 20-50 full synth tonight after I get the right oil filter for it. I was told by the guy at the store that synthetic oil has to have an oil filter for synthetic oil...just another scam to charge more? Anyway, I am still wondering about the grinding noise I get from the tranny when I push the bike forward or backward, it is just a slight noise and I'm not sure where exactly it is coming from. Shouldn't a belt drive be pretty quiet when pushing the bike with the engine off? Thanks for all input, I'm looking for a replacement engine if anyone knows a good source besides ebay. Shipping one is pretty expensive and I would like to find one within 150 miles of Orlando and I will pick it up.

TimKz44082 wrote: Thanks for the welcome...I need to do an intro in the intro section when I find it and get to it. I put the 00-40 synthetic in there because it is synthetic and the current daily temp here in florida is about 92.

Depends on the brand. In the USA, about 99% of oils sold as "pure synthetic" are just dino oil sent through a process called hydrocracking which removes some impurities. The US is the only country where a retarded court decision made it legal for oil makers to sell dino oil as synthetic. There are a few true syn base oils around, I think Amsoil and Mobil 1 are still made from syn stock (?) Some motorcycle oils use syn base stock.

Anyway, stick with 10-40 and just make sure the label does NOT say energy conserving on the label.

lubeng.wordpress.com/2012/06/19/is-your-...il-really-synthetic/

Is Your Engine Oil Really Synthetic?
Posted on June 19, 2012 by Birju Shah

During our sales meeting, I came across an interesting fact: all the engine oil that is marketed as synthetic is not actually synthetic. A good definition of synthetic oil is “noting or pertaining to compounds formed through a chemical process by human agency, as opposed to those of natural origin.” As most of you know, the American Petroleum Institute (API) ranks base stock in the following categories:

InNorth America, Group 3, 4 and 5 are marketed as synthetic oils even though Group 3 is actually a version of highly processed hydrocarbons (mineral oil).

TimKz44082 wrote: Thanks for the welcome...I need to do an intro in the intro section when I find it and get to it. I put the 00-40 synthetic in there because it is synthetic and the current daily temp here in florida is about 92, I drained it all out to see if there was some more metal in it and found none. I guess I cleaned it out pretty good the first time. The first time I pulled the oil screen, reached my finger up over the lip where the screen sets and found all the scrap metal, aluminum, not magnetic. It was just shattered aluminum, enough to pile up about 1/4" onto a silver dollar. I am hoping that maybe a piston shattered in the past and the top was pulled, replaced the piston and put the top back on without completely cleaning out the inner cases. I don't know of anything aluminum in the gearbox except the case itself. Is there anything aluminum in there? I will be putting in 20-50 full synth tonight after I get the right oil filter for it. I was told by the guy at the store that synthetic oil has to have an oil filter for synthetic oil...just another scam to charge more? Anyway, I am still wondering about the grinding noise I get from the tranny when I push the bike forward or backward, it is just a slight noise and I'm not sure where exactly it is coming from. Shouldn't a belt drive be pretty quiet when pushing the bike with the engine off? Thanks for all input, I'm looking for a replacement engine if anyone knows a good source besides ebay. Shipping one is pretty expensive and I would like to find one within 150 miles of Orlando and I will pick it up.

There is no such thing as a "synthetic oil filter."

Be Careful! DO NOT BUY REGULAR CAR OIL! Buy oil that has the term "JASO-MA" on the label. Here's why:

The ingredients in oils have changed over the years. For example, today's Castrol GTX oil (and pretty much all other AUTOMOBILE oil) is not the same as it was in the 1980's. Back then it worked great in KZ bikes. But, things have changed. Early AUTOMOBILE oils contained zinc phosphorus compounds (ZDDP) to protect engine components from metal to metal contact. This was good for engines, but it was found to be destructive to catalytic converters. Consequently, in AUTOMOBILE oils ZDDP was virtually eliminated and replaced with different chemistry generically referred to as "Friction Modifiers." These work fine and offer good protection for normal AUTOMOBILE engines. However, today's AUTOMOBILE oil "Friction Modifiers" are destructive to wet clutches. KZ bikes (and many other brands) have wet clutches. As a result of these oil chemistry changes a distinction needed to be made between those oils which are suitable for wet clutches and those which are not. That distinction was documented by the Japanese Engine Oil Standards Implementation Panel (JASO). JASO developed a number of different oil specifications for different applications. The specifications that apply to 4 stroke motorcycles fall under the "4T Specifications." Within the 4T specifications the JASO MA class oils are specifically formulated for 4 stroke motorcycles with wet clutches.

There are synthetic, semi-synthetic, and non-synthetic oils that meet the JASO-MA standard and any of them will work ok. However, using oils that are not designated as meeting the JASO-MA standard is destructive to KZ clutches.

The JASO-MA cert is really important to make sure the clutch doesn't get screwed up.

The ZDDP thing is important for any flat tappet engine (cam lobes rubbing on flat lifters) like the KZ engines have and most older cars have too. Problem is, oil makers don't put the ZDDP content on the label. Some "bike specific" oils have enough ZDDP, almost all car oils do not. It was eliminated to enhance the life of the catalytic converter.

You can (and I do) buy ZDDP and add it to the oil if the oil doesn't have enough.

zddplus.com/

Optimum ZDDP content for oil is typically in the 1500 - 2000 ppm ballpark. I think car oil now typically runs about 400 - 600?

You could be right with the guess of a piston failure in the past. That much metal/ alloy from the cases would make a transmission shaft be very loose. Probably wouldn't shift anymore. I think on those little motors you can still pull off a transmission cover, which is behind the sprocket. Here the output bearing can be seen. Also the clutch cover can be removed for inspection on that side to see if there is a failure there.
Never hurts to have a spare motor for the right price. Just hard to know its condition, unless it's in a running bike. With it out of the bike, you might be able to bring a battery or set of jumper cables along, and a compression tester. You can still use the starter motor to check compression, although the motor will be cold, and the compression spec will be for a warm motor. Still you won't know if it shifts correctly, or much else. Basically you may be just buying a Core Motor, or you may get a sweet running one.