Need to use stock cylinders on bored-out cases

ed spangler wrote:

steell wrote: I left Kalifornia in 1985 and have no desire to return. And now I'll have to add TN to my list of not now, not ever.

So, do they check engine serial numbers in cars and trucks also?

Just saying they are both ( Chassis and engine ) shown on the title, so everyone I know ( Myself included ) checks the info if buying a vehicle, as far as the State checking/verifying the engine number , nope,I dont think so UNLESS, its a "Builders" or "Salvage" Title someone is applying for in which case , yes they do as they inspect those..
'Regards to ya Steell
Ed

What happens when you buy a bike from another state that doesn't put the engine number on the title?

A stock block can be made solid on the bottom surface. Engine Numbers can be also be changed on any engine case..... There's always a solution

LarryC wrote:

ed spangler wrote:

steell wrote: I left Kalifornia in 1985 and have no desire to return. And now I'll have to add TN to my list of not now, not ever.

So, do they check engine serial numbers in cars and trucks also?

Just saying they are both ( Chassis and engine ) shown on the title, so everyone I know ( Myself included ) checks the info if buying a vehicle, as far as the State checking/verifying the engine number , nope,I dont think so UNLESS, its a "Builders" or "Salvage" Title someone is applying for in which case , yes they do as they inspect those..
'Regards to ya Steell
Ed

What happens when you buy a bike from another state that doesn't put the engine number on the title?

A stock block can be made solid on the bottom surface. Engine Numbers can be also be changed on any engine case..... There's always a solution

Good Question, Tennessee adheres to the transfer rules from another state if bike came from another state.
Example: My Z1-B 900 came from North Carolina, I knew Ternnessee did not require a "Notary Public" stamp so I ( wrongly ) "Assumed" that I did not need one....WRONG! Tennessse DMV looked at the title, saw it was from North Carolina and then checked what their rules for transfer were, saw they required a Notarized Signature of seller. No way,...soooo... I Had to go back to North Carolina and get it notarized and Tennessee DMV then verifiied frame number and engine number because it was coming from another state. I hear ya Larry, there is always another solution BUT we may not like the solution, for another example, you maybe can buy a bike with Tennessee Title where engine/number has been changed>>>and MAYBE get away with it...depending on whether the clerk is paying attention??>> BUT ya better plan on keeping it because if you ever try to sell it Odds are about 100-1 that buyer will want to compare numbers! OR go for a "Salvage" or Builders" title...with whatever change is needed to reflect engine number ( or not) I have bought and sold a LOT of bikes in my 42 years of riding in Tennessee , and I can tell ya I can not remember ANYONE ( Buyer) ever not verifying the frame and engine numbers.against the title!...we may drink a LOT of Moonshine.. :woohoo: ..BUT we arent dumb Hillbillies!!
Also insurance companies here have started checking numbers....I admit ...not sure why...but for bikes may have to do with the under 1000cc rule..?? As far as Cars and Trucks.....I admit I dont check Engine numbers unless its a Vintage car...but then again most of my car/truck purchases come from dealers...so I am guilty of not looking at Engine numbers ,I do try to look at the door though and verify ID #
Ok, thats my .02 and then some....Im done, no more comments from me. It is what it is Sorry!
Time to go ride!!
Regards
Ed

Tomolu5 wrote: What I mean to say is, could the big block jug(assuming you have it) be sleeved down to stock or near stock displacement. This would give you the nice flat gasket mating surface, and the streetablity you are looking for. I would think the stock jugs could be sealed up fine, but I cannot say that I have ever tried.

I might be misinterpreting here, but above the engine cases, we have the cylinder jugs aka 'cylinder block' and above the cylinder block we have the cylinder head, just to normalize the names of parts we're discussing here.

I'm not using the 88mm racing cylinder block aka 'cylinder jugs' that he had on this racing engine at all. I've already got a stock 1015cc cylinder block and stock cylinder head to match. A buddy of mine is taking the bored-out cylinders and head.

So I don't need to worry about the cylinders and head, that is covered, I have all stock bits for those. The top end will in fact be stock 1015cc displacement.

My concern is can I successfully re-use the bottom end that came with this old race bike.
I'm concerned about the 'larger holes on the bottom of the engine cases that will leak oil' that etbike3135 mentioned above, I'm not sure what he meant there, but there might be a solution to that issue as well.

If the lower half of the engine cases is not usasble, as long as the crankshaft journals/bearings/etc. are still in stock condition -- I'm thinking I can just get a new bottom half of the engine cases from a stock, unmodified engine, and then the only part I'll use from the race bike motor will be the top of the engine cases, which has the needed original engine number that's on the title.

Yes, I was with you all along. I was refering to replacing the steel sleeves inside the aluminum cylinder jug. If the big "barrels" are spoken for, then that's a no-go anyways. Like I said, I would think the stock 1015 barrels should work fine on the modified bottom end, but extra care would need to be taken to insure a good gasket seal.(ie. Having both surfaces checked/machined flat). Again I can't say that I have ever tried it, so I could be wrong.

m.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/stamping/...mping-set-60669.html

there is not much chance of anyone doing any machine work on the main journals in the block for a "racing"crank.imho
because pretty much all "racing"cranks are built up from stock cranks.
so my only worry would be the top case half that was bored out to accommodate the big bore sleeves.
the holes in the block that overlap the "now"big bore holes in the case top would need to be welded up and machined flat.
or perhaps deck the top of the block and have a custom spacer plate made of the same thickness to use on the bottom of the block to cover the overlapping holes.


hth,
leon

newOld_kz1000 wrote: My concern is can I successfully re-use the bottom end that came with this old race bike.
I'm concerned about the 'larger holes on the bottom of the engine cases that will leak oil' that etbike3135 mentioned above, I'm not sure what he meant there, but there might be a solution to that issue as well.

If the lower half of the engine cases is not usasble, as long as the crankshaft journals/bearings/etc. are still in stock condition -- I'm thinking I can just get a new bottom half of the engine cases from a stock, unmodified engine, and then the only part I'll use from the race bike motor will be the top of the engine cases, which has the needed original engine number that's on the title.

I dunno if you've never tore down a 1000cc motor. But u should look at a schematic online. It would do you no good to replace the bottom case, unless its broke. The top have, which has the vin on it, is what gets bored. The bottom half doesn't get anything done unless its got a crank bearing cap plate. Then it the cap gets milled. Which if its bored that big. Chances are the bottom end is built also. I would say it would leak at the base gasket or around the oil passages. at the base gasket. U might be able to do as 531blackbanshee says and make a plate. But not sure what the smallest size you can go with that big of sleeve. But maybe it would be a 1200 or so. That could be built streetable if built correctly. It would also fix the leak issue. Or u could just run a stock cc and dry block it. and that would fix most the issue.

First, you never replace half a case. They are a matched, line bored set.

Second, you can do exactly what 531Blackbanshee suggested about adding a plate. Welding up the jug holes is going to be a mother of a job. The cases are probably going to warp all to hell. You should bolt the cases together and they will need to be preheated prior to welding. The amount of heat from all the welding may play hell with the bearing bores too. If going that route you would probably want the crank & transmission installed and torqued while welding.....

I have a welder that could do the job but it would be costly...for sure.

Best approach would probably be a plate made for the top case. It could be secured with counter sunk screws / bolts and fill the bolt holes with good epoxy afterward. The case will need to be machined down the thickness of the plate being added prior to adding it. It will be a considerable amount of work.

Cheapest way out is buy a set of stamps, get another set of cases and re-stamp the numbers.

JMO

I'm nearly sold, but the reason I was leaning towards using the existing cases with the original Engine number is, I wondered if an engraver would want to do it, as they might see there's a risk to themselves, "I don't know this guy and now he wants me to overwrite a serial number on an engine" type of deal.

I would not get a professional or passable-looking restamp if I did a re-stamp myself, not a chance on earth, I am ham-handed in the extreme with anything requiring dexterity skills like that.

So I'll have to hire an engraver. I think I'll have to do the following -- bring the existing cases to him and a set of cases to use as a replacement and show him the old engine number, the alteration done to the old engine cases, show him the title, and hopefully I'll find an engraver not too chickenschitt to accept that.

If I just walk up to an engraver without the old cases and title there's no way they'd do a restamp I reckon.

However this is sounding like the smartest way to go here.

Just get the engine numbers swapped over on both sets of cases.
That way anyone doing the stamping will know it's a legit reason and you will also have a set of bored out cases with a genuine number which you can sell on .

zed1015 wrote: Just get the engine numbers swapped over on both sets of cases.
That way anyone doing the stamping will know it's a legit reason and you will also have a set of bored out cases with a genuine number which you can sell on .

Now that is excellent advice -- will also make the engraver at peace with it, or at least it should -- thank you Zed.