Problem with camshaft installation, KZ1000R

So I finally got my valve seals and decided to put the engine together, KZ1000R -83. The engine is kinda tuned with 1200cc etc. I also saw that the camshaft was from a Z1100 B (the camshaft sprockets was marked with Z1100 B ). So when I put it all together I followed the manual for KZ1000 models.

First i noticed that the camshaft sprockets bolts were opposite that from the manual (which says that for exhaust camshaft you should use the square sprocket holes I think, and vice versa.) I thought that this was because it was Z1100 camshaft so I did nothing about it. So I mounted the exhaust camshaft first with 1 & 4 cylinder TDC, and with the EX mark aligned with the top of the head according to the manual. With only that camshaft mounted and held the cam chain tensioned I turned the crankshaft which went smoothly. Then I inserted the inlet camshaft according to manual, aligned the IN mark with the 44th pin of the cam chain. After i did this i again tried to turn the crankshaft, which only moved for a bit and then freezed. I can move it back and forth but not a whole turn. There was also a kinda loud noise when i did this, but nothing seemed to have been broken.

Not sure what to do now, is it correctly installed or would it be different because of the Z1100 camshafts?

sounds as tho you are hitting a valve.
which means you don't have the cams timed right.
be careful not to force it past where it stops or you will bend a valve.

you can remove the cams and blow air into the spark plug holes to see if you have bent a valve.
if there is a bent valve you will hear the air coming out of the intake or exhaust.

sorry i'm of no help to tell you how to properly time your cams.

leon

I have pictures from when it was installed before, would´t it be sufficient to set the timing advancer as before and the camshafts as before or am I missing something from doing it according to the manual?

Is the Z1100B camshafts any different to the original ones?

If your valves are shim over bucket and there are no shims on the bucket, when you put the cams in it will lock up tighter than a drum. If this is the case, then putting shims in the buckets will allow the cams to rotate. Once the cams rotate then a valve adjustment can be completed.

And yes, the manual is confusing. They show chain timing as if you could see bolts through the sprockets. HTH, Tim

Yes, the Z1100 camshaft sprockets are marked differently than the Z1000 sprockets. Exhaust sprockets are attached to the camshaft through the round holes and the Intake camshaft is attached through the hexagonal insets. This holds true for the GPz1100 B2 cams and the GPz1100A1 cams.

It is very easy to bend a valve by hand just rotating the mis-aligned camshafts (don't ask me how I know this).

PetterA wrote: So I finally got my valve seals and decided to put the engine together, KZ1000R -83. The engine is kinda tuned with 1200cc etc. I also saw that the camshaft was from a Z1100 B (the camshaft sprockets was marked with Z1100 B ). So when I put it all together I followed the manual for KZ1000 models.

First i noticed that the camshaft sprockets bolts were opposite that from the manual (which says that for exhaust camshaft you should use the square sprocket holes I think, and vice versa.) I thought that this was because it was Z1100 camshaft so I did nothing about it. So I mounted the exhaust camshaft first with 1 & 4 cylinder TDC, and with the EX mark aligned with the top of the head according to the manual. With only that camshaft mounted and held the cam chain tensioned I turned the crankshaft which went smoothly. Then I inserted the inlet camshaft according to manual, aligned the IN mark with the 44th pin of the cam chain. After i did this i again tried to turn the crankshaft, which only moved for a bit and then freezed. I can move it back and forth but not a whole turn. There was also a kinda loud noise when i did this, but nothing seemed to have been broken.

Not sure what to do now, is it correctly installed or would it be different because of the Z1100 camshafts?

I'll tell you what's wrong but you have to give me the 500 in your avatar :evil:

You're better off with the 1100 cams on the R sprockets but they will work with either and there should not be any problem with valve contact if you bolt things up correctly.

Choose the sprockets you want to use.
When you bolt the exhaust cam to the sprocket, just make sure the lobe for #4 is pointing directly away from the index mark that lines up with the valve cover surface. It's the same for the Intake cam.

If you have something wrong, the lobe will not be pointing away from the index mark. If that's the case, STOP: and see what's wrong.

Well, when I look at the old pictures it looks like the exhaust sprockets are attached to the camshaft through the hexagonal holed and the intake sprocket through the round holes...

Looks like the previous owner did everything to screw with later owners - me... I mean, who puts in valve seals from a SAAB in a tuned KZ engine and switch places of the camshafts :S

It is the first time I´m doing this so it not the easiest when it´s not correct from the beginning.

So, the way I see it now, is that i follow your advice, changing sprockets holes for the camshafts and following the manual as to set it all right. Or i leave it as is and set the timing advancer and camshafts as before in the old pictures. What would be preferred?

And whats the easiest way to check for bent valves? I don´t have compressed air to check with.

With the cams removed, Use a tiny, bright flashlight. Poke it into each port and look through the spark plug hole for light in the cylinder.

Kawasaki used different valve timing on different J Engine models. The GPZ 1100's all used 110 lobe centers. The cruiser 1000's used 105/108. The standard J used 105/108.

That said, all of those valve timings are well within a range where you would not have valve to valve or piston to valve collision dangers providing the cams are bolted the the correct hole locations on the sprockets and the cams are timed correctly to the crankshaft.

Combine that with your 1200 pistons that would have even more valve relieve than a stock piston and you have an even greater margin of safety. That assumes nobody shaved the head down ....

Are you using a stock chain tensioner or an APE?

LarryC wrote: With the cams removed, Use a tiny, bright flashlight. Poke it into each port and look through the spark plug hole for light in the cylinder.

Kawasaki used different valve timing on different J Engine models. The GPZ 1100's all used 110 lobe centers. The cruiser 1000's used 105/108. The standard J used 105/108.

That said, all of those valve timings are well within a range where you would not have valve to valve or piston to valve collision dangers providing the cams are bolted the the correct hole locations on the sprockets and the cams are timed correctly to the crankshaft.

Combine that with your 1200 pistons that would have even more valve relieve than a stock piston and you have an even greater margin of safety. That assumes nobody shaved the head down ....

Are you using a stock chain tensioner or an APE?

Thanks!

I´m using the stock chain tensioner. Is it recommended to use the APE?

Yeah, but it feels like nothing is where it is supposed to be. Maybe it´s just easiest to set the advancer and cams as before..

So I decidec to try to set everything right, changed the cams and set everything according to manual. Turned the cams and everything went smoothly! Tried to start it, backfired a bit but didn´t quite ignite. carbs flooded so I gave up.. Next is to try to set the cams and igniter as before and see what happens..

Backfire with no start is usually caused by incorrect wires to the coil primaries. Check that before you tear the cams out of it again. I've had a couple of customers I built motors call me up in a panic with the same symptoms after they install the motor. I tell them what's wrong. The fix it and it fires to life immediately....