Supreme 7000 Synthetic Plus Racing Oil SAE 20W-50

No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationI found this ,Schaeffer;s V-twin oil

Over $10/quart?

Seems kind of pricey to me.

I think the gallon jugs of 15-40 rotella at Wallymart are under $20.

No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configuration

kaw-62046 wrote: I found this ,Schaeffer;s V-twin oil

Take a look at the ebay listing; it states:

"7000™ Synthetic Plus Racing Oil SAE 20W-50 (#705) is not recommended for use in those motorcycle and ATV applications that specify engine oil that meets JASO MA or MB. Use of #705 in applications that specify JASO MA or MB oil can cause slippage and improper engagement of the clutch mechanisms."

I think the op is just dieing to run Schaeffer's brand of oil in his bike lol

www.schaefferoil.com/cmss_files/attachme...heets/707%20Logo.pdf

I don't see anything in that 707 oil that suggests it's bad for wet clutch bikes. In fact its MA certified.

This oil has a crap ton of zinc and phosphorus. More than double the typical motorcycle oil. Not sure that's necessarily a good thing though, although I'm not sure.

Nessism wrote: www.schaefferoil.com/cmss_files/attachme...heets/707%20Logo.pdf

I don't see anything in that 707 oil that suggests it's bad for wet clutch bikes. In fact its MA certified.

This oil has a crap ton of zinc and phosphorus. More than double the typical motorcycle oil. Not sure that's necessarily a good thing though, although I'm not sure.

Looking at the information in Schaeffer link you provided you are correct. It states that the Schaeffer 707 oil meets or exceeds the JASO MA-2 spec. And yet the eBay listing states :

"Further blended into these synthetic blend base fluids, the highly advanced proprietary performance additive package and shear stability viscosity index improver are two proven frictional modifiers, Micron Moly®, a liquid soluble type of Moly and Schaeffer Mfg's own proprietary additive Penetro®. These two proven frictional modifiers once plated, form a long lasting slippery tenacious lubricant film, which prevents the metal surfaces from coming into contact with each other. By preventing metal-to-metal contact, damaging frictional wear is prevented from occurring."

I would not use this oil. I say this because molybdenum is known to negatively affect wet clutches. It doesn't really matter to me though who uses what oil, and some bikes' clutches may have a higher tolerance than others, may be ridden less, or who knows how many other variables that could cause a clutch to slip or not slip. It would be interesting to see some sort of independent verification that it meets the MA-2 standard.

Further down, the eBay listing states the following, but it appears that paragraph pertains to Schaeffer 705 oil which is not what the eBay listing says it is selling.

"7000™ Synthetic Plus Racing Oil SAE 20W-50 (#705) is not recommended for use in those motorcycle and ATV applications that specify engine oil that meets JASO MA or MB. Use of #705 in applications that specify JASO MA or MB oil can cause slippage and improper engagement of the clutch mechanisms. It's is also not recommended for use in 4-cycle marine engines that specify the use of a NMMA FC or FC-W 4-cycle engine oil."

650ed wrote:

Nessism wrote: www.schaefferoil.com/cmss_files/attachme...heets/707%20Logo.pdf

I don't see anything in that 707 oil that suggests it's bad for wet clutch bikes. In fact its MA certified.

This oil has a crap ton of zinc and phosphorus. More than double the typical motorcycle oil. Not sure that's necessarily a good thing though, although I'm not sure.

Looking at the information in Schaeffer link you provided you are correct. It states that the Schaeffer 707 oil meets or exceeds the JASO MA-2 spec. And yet the eBay listing states :

"Further blended into these synthetic blend base fluids, the highly advanced proprietary performance additive package and shear stability viscosity index improver are two proven frictional modifiers, Micron Moly®, a liquid soluble type of Moly and Schaeffer Mfg's own proprietary additive Penetro®. These two proven frictional modifiers once plated, form a long lasting slippery tenacious lubricant film, which prevents the metal surfaces from coming into contact with each other. By preventing metal-to-metal contact, damaging frictional wear is prevented from occurring."

I would not use this oil. I say this because molybdenum is known to negatively affect wet clutches. It doesn't really matter to me though who uses what oil, and some bikes' clutches may have a higher tolerance than others, may be ridden less, or who knows how many other variables that could cause a clutch to slip or not slip. It would be interesting to see some sort of independent verification that it meets the MA-2 standard.

Further down, the eBay listing states the following, but it appears that paragraph pertains to Schaeffer 705 oil which is not what the eBay listing says it is selling.

"7000™ Synthetic Plus Racing Oil SAE 20W-50 (#705) is not recommended for use in those motorcycle and ATV applications that specify engine oil that meets JASO MA or MB. Use of #705 in applications that specify JASO MA or MB oil can cause slippage and improper engagement of the clutch mechanisms. It's is also not recommended for use in 4-cycle marine engines that specify the use of a NMMA FC or FC-W 4-cycle engine oil."

Forget the ebay listing. Go to the Shaffer website for info.

MA-2 means it won't harm your clutch. Personally, I don't care much if my oil is MA-2 certified since I use diesel oil.

Nessism wrote: Forget the ebay listing. Go to the Shaffer website for info.
MA-2 means it won't harm your clutch. Personally, I don't care much if my oil is MA-2 certified since I use diesel oil.

I agree - the 707 product says it meets or exceeds the JASO-MA2 standard, and that indicates it shouldn't hurt wet clutches. But It's not going in my bike because it has friction modifiers with moly in it and I don't want moly in my wet clutch. Ed

Nothing wrong with a little moly. That Mobil 1 Racing 4T you recommend has a fair bit... www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads...0_-'12_S#Post3186938

Nessism wrote: Nothing wrong with a little moly. That Mobil 1 Racing 4T you recommend has a fair bit... www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads...0_-'12_S#Post3186938

Even though the amount of moly shown in the report is miniscule (a mere 79 parts per million), I don't accept the report as an accurate representation as to the ingredients of Mobil 1 Racing 4T oil, because the report is analyzing oil that was run in a motor that previously contained other oil rather than analyzing 100% Mobil 1 Racing 4T oil. So as with any oil change, some of the old oil remains behind, and in this case that remaining oil mixed with the Mobil 1 Racing 4T for more than 2,700 miles. Consequently, the oil in this study is a blend of Mobil 1 Racing 4T and who knows what old oil plus whatever contaminates that may have been flushed from the engine's interior, so the study is not a valid analysis of what's in Mobil 1 Racing 4T oil. The report was never intended to show the contents of Mobil 1 Racing 4T oil, its purpose was to analyze wear on the engine - notice there is also iron and aluminum present in the used oil and I doubt that Mobil put it in there. I would be interested in seeing a list of ingredients in uncontaminated Mobil 1 Racing 4T oil either from Mobil or an independent lab to see what is in it. I have never seen such an actual ingredients list other than that which shows ZDDP levels (see link below), so other than what I've read on the internet stating it does not contain moly I have no proof. Ed

www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Fi..._1_Product_Guide.pdf

Here is another analysis on 4T saying there is similar amounts of moly to that other test... www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads...4T_10w-4#Post3074142

Honestly man, you are obviously free to use whatever oil you see fit, but I don't think your moly-fear is properly placed. If the oil passes MA-2 you are good to go. Heck, you don't even need this as long as you aren't using some junky car "energy saving" oil (that's the stuff to fear). A lot of different motorcycle oils have some moly, and they don't cause undue harm to clutches. I'm no expert, but have read through a good many oil analysis reports on BITOG, and there is no big concern with minor amounts of moly.

As an aside, there are guys on BITOG using "energy saving" car oil in their touring rigs without problems to their clutch. It's sort of a challenge to some of these guys to go against the grain and see what happens. It's easy to over think stuff like oil. But again, use what makes you comfortable. For me it's diesel oil, since I'm cheap. Main thing I look for is at least 1100 PPM of both zinc and phosphorus. 1500 is better but it's hard to find oil like this anymore because of these materials coat the catalyst and damage it. The old style Rotella was up in the 1500 range, so I squirreled away a couple gallons and mix it with the newer stuff on newer rebuilds.

That study also was done with oil that was mixed with the remnants of previous oil rather than oil right from the container, so again the results are inconclusive. In all honesty, I'm not overly concerned about tiny amounts of moly. However, when I see an oil company that touts the fact that they add moly as a friction modifier, such as the Schaeffer oil, I do scratch that oil off the list of those I would use in my bike. If you are using a diesel oil similar to Rotella, I'm sure it will perform fine. Personally, I like a full synthetic, so I use the Mobil-1 Racing 4T motorcycle oil. Amsoil motorcycle oil would be another excellent choice for fully synthetic motorcycle oil.

I would never put "energy saving" car oil in my bike again. Since 1977 I had used Castrol car oil, but I didn't realize they changed their formula at some point to cope with catalytic convertors. As a result, at 43,000 miles I had to replace my clutch disks. Since then I have only used motorcycle oil.

For anyone interested in a comparison of motorcycle oils the links below provide studies performed on various oils. The studies were commissioned by Amsoil, so it's not surprising that their oil came out on top, but if nothing else, the studies still show an interesting comparison between other oils. Ed

wpc.1c96.edgecastcdn.net/001C96/G-Items/...-archived/index.html

wpc.1c96.edgecastcdn.net/001C96/G-Items/...-archived/index.html