78 KZ1000 camshaft cap broken/engine tick

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30 Mar 2013 18:41 - 30 Mar 2013 18:43 #579650 by portlandkz23
78 KZ1000 camshaft cap broken/engine tick was created by portlandkz23
Hi new to the forum

So I took my 78 kz1000 out the other day and started hearing a tick developing once it warms up at low rmps. It sounded like it was coming from the left side of the top end maybe like a valve clearance issue.. So I decided to tear it apart and upon taking of the H cover I found my #1 camshaft cap snapped in half.. So could that have caused the tick? What would cause that to break in the first place Previous owner over tightening it combined with heat and stress? or could that be a result of something else being broken or oil starvation? Their was oil in their so IDK.. I still think the tick I heard was deeper in the cylinder head so I'm in the process of removing that. so far I have everything off the Head (Carbs, Exhaust, etc)and both cams out of it.. any Ideas on what would cause the tick?

As far as my camshaft cap goes I think its gonna be a headache. I've been researching it and their machined with the cylinder head so its not exactly a part you can just replace. I've I can try and find another cap and replace the bearings with the original ones so I might give that a try. Another Option Is the possibility of having it welded by a shop since I dont thin I could weld it clean enough with my little welder.. The other option I think is getting a whole new head w/caps off ebay or some place which I'm finding are actually rather reasonably priced.

So any advice on what the tick could be or why the cap broke and how to replace it would be really appreciated.

Thanks

"having trouble attaching pictures I'm going to try and re-size.. Maybe that will work"

78 kz1000
Last edit: 30 Mar 2013 18:43 by portlandkz23.

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30 Mar 2013 19:24 #579659 by zed1015
Replied by zed1015 on topic 78 KZ1000 camshaft cap broken/engine tick
where has the cap broke ?
They usually break on the bridge and not over the actual cam bearing.
There is no need to replace the cap or head if it's a broken bridge.
Just remove the broken bridge and treat as two seperate caps.
Mark one of the halves and corresponding location on the head so they don't get mixed up when refitting.

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30 Mar 2013 19:46 #579669 by portlandkz23
Replied by portlandkz23 on topic 78 KZ1000 camshaft cap broken/engine tick
I had to switch from firefox to google chrome to attach pictures for whatever reason..

Yup their broken on the bridge... Thanks zed I'll probably re install it as is, they fit together perfectly and its not broken off by the bearing.. So im guessing the tick was probably one of the exhaust valves..

anyother ideas?

78 kz1000
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30 Mar 2013 20:17 #579673 by 650ed
Replied by 650ed on topic 78 KZ1000 camshaft cap broken/engine tick
Is that a big crack that I have circled in yellow? :unsure:

Attachment 00000_2013-03-30-2.jpg not found


1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)
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30 Mar 2013 20:24 #579676 by peter1958
Replied by peter1958 on topic 78 KZ1000 camshaft cap broken/engine tick
The little part that came off when it broke might be down in somewhere causing tick

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30 Mar 2013 21:23 #579684 by baldy110
Replied by baldy110 on topic 78 KZ1000 camshaft cap broken/engine tick
You can still use those caps they are now just seperate cam caps. Make sure you mark them from which valve they came from. Drain the oil and see if that little piece comes out. If not drop the pan it should be down there.

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30 Mar 2013 21:25 #579685 by portlandkz23
Replied by portlandkz23 on topic 78 KZ1000 camshaft cap broken/engine tick
Ha that looks like a huge crack in the pic luckly its just a raised piece on the head with oil on it.. no cracks..

Yea their is one tiny piece off the cap i havent been able to locate you can see it in the second and fourth pic... Geez I hope I dont have to locate it.. I wonder if the previous owners put it back broken and removed the missing piece at that time? I still have the guy I bought it from I might ask if I cant find anything once I remove the head..

Thanks for the help I'll get in their and see what I can find let me know if theirs anything I should be looking for or anything else it might be..

78 kz1000

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01 Apr 2013 01:24 #579883 by portlandkz23
Replied by portlandkz23 on topic 78 KZ1000 camshaft cap broken/engine tick
So When I said I had the exhaust off I had just removed the bolts.. Two of the studs were a little bent so it took a little wiggling to get it off... Upon taking it off the right side middle cylinder (idk if thats 2 or 3 or which side you count from...) anyways theirs a whole bunch of oil coming out of their for some reason. Does that mean its not firing? I never did a compression test and probably should have... or does that mean that cylinder just doesn't have any spark? I included some pictures of it,,

I also found a really bad exhaust gasket from the area I heard the tick which I also included a pic of.. Do you think that could have been my mystery tick?

I'm not sure what my game plan is at this point.. I drained the oil and couldn't find any metal pieces so I think i'm gonna drop the oil pan tomorrow after work now that the exhaust is out of the way and make sure theirs nothing in their.. I'm gonna order up some new gaskets check all my bushing and camshaft lobes trim off the bridge on my broken cap and reassemble I'll probably replace either all the spark plugs or just the one on that second cylinder..

Or should I just go ahead and continue to remove the head since im already into it this far?

78 kz1000
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01 Apr 2013 01:42 #579885 by MFolks
Replied by MFolks on topic 78 KZ1000 camshaft cap broken/engine tick
I'd remove the exhaust system and throughly clean the ports for a smooth surface the new gaskets will need. I believe the same size but thicker gaskets are used by Suzuki. www.z1enterprises.com sells both Kawasaki and Suzuki gaskets. As for tearing into the engine; Hows the compression look? Did you do a leakdown test too?

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01 Apr 2013 03:34 #579891 by portlandkz23
Replied by portlandkz23 on topic 78 KZ1000 camshaft cap broken/engine tick
No I haven't done a compression test. I didnt think it felt like it had low compression and I dont have a tester but I work at harbor frieght and might pick one up tomorrow.. The tick is what started me tearing it down and now that the cams are out id have to put it all back together for the compression test... So I'm wondering if I should rebuild it once i get new gaskets and oil and see how it sounds.. whats a leak test? Eh I can probably google that.. whats its assembled i might try switching the spark plug wires around and see if the cylinder will fire or if its the cable or plug is bad... I'm still kinda new at this stuff and cant decide if I should just take the head off for some cleaning or just rebuild and see where im at? Building it up and having to dear it back down again wont kill my spirit to much...

78 kz1000

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01 Apr 2013 08:25 - 01 Apr 2013 20:21 #579907 by LarryC
Replied by LarryC on topic 78 KZ1000 camshaft cap broken/engine tick
If you knock the bridge out you loose thrust face alignment assurance.

#1 cap controls lateral thrust movement of the exhaust cam. The two dowel pins assure the cap mounts straight. As one piece, the dowels being opposite corners keep the alignment correct. As two separate pieces [bridge removed] that no longer happens.

It's still usable as two pieces but pay attention to see they're not cocked when you bolt them down. The left side front and the right side rear could cock off the amount equal to the slop between the cap bolt hole and the bolt itself.

The non bridged caps [550/650/750] have two dowels front and back.

FYI the same applies to #3 cap [intake cam]


Look at the bottom of the broken cap. It's possible at one point someone tried to bolt it down without having the cam positioned [centered] between the thrust faces built into the cap. That would snap it off like that one is. The cam has two flanges that keep the cam from walking. They are under the center [bridge portion] of the cap.

Larry C.
Last edit: 01 Apr 2013 20:21 by LarryC.

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