Another valve shim ? for a KZ650

I've discovered the probable cause for a multitude of my problems reguarding engine operation. I checked my valve clearances today and was shocked by the results:

Front Of Engine

0.076mm

---

0.064mm

---

0.051mm

---

0.076mm

<0.051mm

---

0.229mm

---

0.076mm

---

0.076mm


Everyone, except one, was under the 0.15mm recommended setting. The one that wasn't is 0.079mm over. And one of them (<0.051mm) I didn't have a feeler guage small enough to measure it!

Now the question I have is this. I have the manual and have read the entire procedure and understand the math and formula's etc. to figure out what shims I need. But....

I was wondering if I could (one valve at a time) remove the shim it has, reinstall the cam, take a feeler guage measurement, and then buy the shim to put the clearance within specs? Is it absolutely necessary to measure, do the math using the number off the old shims and come to the conclusion that way?

I realize you wouldn't want to rotate the engine with no shims installed. That's why I proposed doing it one valve at a time.

I'm really on a tight budget here. I can't afford even one of Z1's shim kits. No offense to Z1 or anybody but right now I can't buy parts I'm not going to use. I need to buy just the shims I need and thought this procedure might illiminate some of the possibility of coming up with wrong numbers.

Would greatly appreciate any insight into this procedure.

As it turns out my over the winter bike rebuild/restoration is looking extrememly up in the air due to funds. I'm probably going to have to just get the bike as mechanically sound and safe as possible and then plan to do the whole paint/mod thing next winter.

Thanks for any help!

Post edited by: Bud1, at: 2005/10/29 13:22

Post edited by: Bud1, at: 2005/10/29 13:22

pm'ed you. You might want to do a leak down test too.

I feel you pain Bud, 82 650 CSR here.

I have to reshim to get running (need valve seals befoe that even), when I have a hour free or so we should discuss it over a U2U or something. I'm supremely busy today though. Good luck if your starting already.

Underbucket shims own us! :ohmy:

I've gotten the old shims out and now have a new problem. Three of the old shims have NO numbers on them. They look like they have worn off. Can I measure them with a micrometer? or what should I do to determine what number they are?

Thanks again.

zedheadmc I'll send ya a message when I have more info.

nfswift I'd like to discuss it also but understand time constraints.

It is unusual for clearances to widen during normal use. Most of the wear in these engines is with the valve/valve seat with the valve gradually receeding into the head faster than any wear on the cam or bucket. So you should expect the gaps get less over time.

With what you describe, I suspect some damage to a valve causing it to not return completely - bent valve or damaged bucket. The previous advice to perform a compression test or a leak-down test will help tell the tale.

If you don't want to get a selection of shims, the only way you can do this is record the clearances you have today, pull the cams and measure the shims, then calculate the shims you'll need.

Hi Bud, If you have all the valve clearances, then remove all the valve shims( but keep them in order)measure them, do the math, you will know what size shim you need for each valve.
Then make a list of what you need, compare that to the list of what you have, and more than likely you will only need to buy 2 or 3 shims.
The kaw dealer in my area has a shim exchange program where you take in your shims you don't need and trade them for the ones you do need. They only charge a couple of dollars a piece for this.
If you can't get a feeler guage in to measure your valve clearance but the bucket still moves I would just call that zero. It works for me.
And if the numbers are worn off you can measure them with a micrometer.

I've already removed the old shims so I can't really check the compression without putting it all back together. Was thinking if I get the valve clearances right then I could get a better compression reading. Don't know if that's accurate. But seems like it.

I belive that the shm sizes are the MM thickness of the shim. i.e a 270 shim is 2.7mm. I always measure them with amicrometer as them numbers areoften missing.
Cheers

Dave

Ok got them measured and converted over to metric equivalents. And my luck holds true! I can only use two of my old shims. But hey, I'm learning a lot.:blink:

Oh and of course my valve cover gasket broken into many pieces while taking it off. Wasn't stuck on just more like it fell apart. Local dealers want $33 to $35 for new ones. So I'm just gonna cut a new gasket out of gasket material I have. Unless someone knows a reason I shouldn't do that.

This is worth it and it does get better, right?:blink:

Post edited by: Bud1, at: 2005/10/29 18:00

Bud1 wrote:

This is worth it and it does get better, right?:blink:<br><br>Post edited by: Bud1, at: 2005/10/29 18:00

Yes and yes. I reshimed for the first time last winter Bud. Be carefull about yout torque settings and bolt tightening sequence when you bolt the cams down again.

find a dealer that carries aftermarket gaskets... I think I paid $9 for the last 750cc v-c gasket I got.

Your readings are not all *that* far off really, .15mm is the recommended clearance. You can really run anything from .05-.15mm without problem although .10-.15 is best to be safe. Also depends a lot on how you measure, the cams may not be round to .05mm, in other words you might measure only .05mm at one point of rotation, but .10mm or even .15mm at another point. A factory Kawasaki mechanic told me way back in 1978 to measure for the minimum clearance throughout the entire rotation of the cam. in other words you are looking for the point where the largest size feeler will go through as you slowly turn over the engine, then use this as your base to determine shim size. If you do this I'll bet 7 of yours will be between .10-.15mm. Only one off by a size or 2.