Piston Rings Issue - Need your help

I am at a turning point. I have this wonderful 1980 Kz1000. I am told that the compression is dead because the piston rings are bad and need replacing and the bike is on its last legs. I was told that even if I were to replace the piston rings, the labor charges would exceed the price of a new engine. I love this bike and do not want to let this Kz go. Can anyone turn me on to a place to purchase a rebuilt engine at a decent price? Better yet, what should I expect to pay for a engine rebuild? Any insight into this issue could possible safe this family heirloom. Any mechanic that is in 300 miles of Chicago who would like to take a peek at this wonderful machine to offer some insight would be a god send. Thanks much.

Post edited by: Yzr 1, at: 2006/05/20 02:03

the best starting questions would be where are you located? and are you mechanicaly inclined?

If the bike in your avatar is the one you are talking about, that looks like an 81 KZ1000 LTD, not an 80 model. There are big differences between an 80 and an 81, especially the motor. On the headstock directly behind the headlight there is a sticker with the VIN number and date of manufacture, it would help identify it proof positive if you would post them here.

Picture of 80 KZ1000 LTD posted by Wireman in the Gallery

After you positively identify the year model, you might call Redline Cycle in Skokie and talk to them.

Redline Cycle Service, Inc.
Skokie, IL USA
Since 1976
Phone: (847)675-2020 Fax: (847)675-2027 Toll Free: (877)271-9292

My "guess" is ~$1000.00 to rebuild it if you perform the labor, ~$1500 for Redline to do it.
But that's just a guess.

Post edited by: steell, at: 2006/05/20 10:40

I'm in Chicago, Illinois. No, the one in my avatar is my 1981 Kz750 LTD that I actually purchased through the KZRIDER classifieds last year. I am not very mechanically inclined but would take this to a mechanic and not get taken for a ride. I trust the insight and advice that I have received from day one on this site and I would like to arm myself the any info available. I would also prefer to hire a KZRIDER member to do the work if possible.

Ah, I understand now

Ok, 1980 KZ1000 ST (shaft drive)?

Nice looking outfit!
I really like the sidecar.

Yes, it is shaft...Kz1000-E2. The sidecar is great and gets some of the younger family members into riding in a real positive way. Thanks for the compliment.

that bike and side car are worth fixing.
I would be glad to fix it for you - its ashame that your so far from houston.

if you wanted to try your self you would get plenty of help here. but keep in mind - you need to do more testing before you start taking it apart. the numb nut you talked to before may not have checked it completely and may have only assumed what the problem is.

it should get both a wet & dry compression test and leak down test.

First, I don't really see how ANYONE could diagnose a problem with the rings and compression without taking the cylinder block off the bike. The first thing that needs to be done is remove the cylinder head and then the block. The secret here is to measure the diameter of the pistons and the diameter of the cylinder bore. If these are within spec, a new set of piston rings is all that is needed along with a gasket kit or at least cylinder and base gaskets and probably a new valve cover gasket. OK...

COST of parts? about $100 for the rings, about $20 for the cylinder hone and about $75 for the gasket kit. I am just estimating as I don't sell these parts but you will have about $200 in parts. When in there, you can do other things that are probably a good idea. If you use don't want to yank the bottom of the engine, you can replace the cam chain for about $50 and the associated rubber bits for about another $50. That puts you at about $300 in parts. The last issue is the cylinder head. I typically disassemble and clean, lap the valves and put on the new oil seals that are included in the gasket kit. No parts are generally needed but about 3 hours labor is. The top end job laobr requires scraping the base gasket and cylinder head gaskets. This whole project is a days work for an experienced mechanic plus another 3 hours if you clean up the head. That puts it at about 11 to 12 hrs labor. SOOOOO $300 plus the labor means a BIG bill... unless you find someone to help YOU do the work. Honestly, it isn't very hard work. Most folks who rebuild a top end the first time are pretty surprised at how little in the way or tools or expertise are needed. Perhaps a torque wrench and manual but mostly all hand tools after that.

OK... now if you find the pistons worn and the bores worn and the clearances too great so that new rings won't seal? Is this a disaster? Heck no! I personally keep matched 1015cc cylinder blocks and pistons (and 903 blocks and pistons) that ARE within spec that can be tossed in and the same procedures applied as above. You can pick up a block/piston set (used of course) on eBay of from a member parting his bike out for less than $100... probably far less than that!

I know you aren't keen on mechanic work but that darn shafty w/sidecar is so pretty you MUST keep the bike on the road. I have two of them myself (79 and 80) in project form! If you can't find anyone to do the work reasonably in your area, drop me an email and I can make some suggestions!

I have read lot's of positive things about Redline, and no negatives, and they specialize in the KZ models, while it's pretty tough to find anyone else that are worth anything (commercial shop wise) anywhere near Chicago that will work on the KZ's.

IMHO, they are probably your best bet, not the cheapest option, but considering what you have (and your mechanical skills) I think it's the best option.

There are several members that I think are capable of doing it for you, but I don't think any are near Chicago (could be wrong though, I don't know everyones location)

I'm having a "Senior Moment" here, who is it that lives in Galesburg IL and has a shop??
Somebody help me out here.

Have a leakdown test done before disassembling the motor to see exactly why it has no compression.

Jay

You don't mention the mileage on the engine or if the bike has been sitting for many years.

Several points - building on Jay's comment - you need to understand why the compression is down. Sometimes low compression can be due to valve clearance. On these bikes (and most DOHC shim style motors) the valve clearances tighten up with wear. If this gets to the point you have no clearance it's more than possible to lose compression.

I would start with removing the valve cover and checking clearances.

Additionally, if the bike has been sitting for a long time, then the rings can gum themselves into the pistons. Running the bike with products like Ringfree or Seafoan added to the fuel can ungum piston rings and also reduce/eliminate carbon buildup in the combustion chamber and valve / valve seat area.

Post edited by: Jeff.Saunders, at: 2006/05/20 18:44

I'm with Jeff, the valves tighten up faster then the rings go away. A valve adjust or rering can be done your self if you get a factory shop manual and take your time. They are lots of us who have done this and will help you through it.
Mark