Starter or Starter Clutch?

Since I got the 82 KZ1100 A2 shafty 2 yrs ago, the starter would intermittently just spin up and not actually catch to turn over the motor.
Now, It spins up, but won't start the motor. It won't turn it over.
There is some clattering like the it's trying to grab, but never actually turns it over.
Would that be the Starter or the Starter Clutch being problematic.
Of course, before asking, I stupidly bought a starter on Ebay and hopefully I can get an answer before it actually ships and the guy will be nice enough to stop the order if it isn't the starter.

I don't know if a motorcycle starter has a bendixon like a regular starter or if it's all in the starter clutch.
How does this actually work and which is the problem so that I know more about this.
Thanks in advance to all who help me.

Over Running Starter Clutch Repair On the Older, Bigger 4’S

1. When preparing to repair the starter over running clutch have a few items on hand:

A. New alternator cover gasket.
B. New springs (3).
C. New spring caps (3).
D. New rollers (3).

2. If possible, put the motorcycle on the center stand and tilt to the right to reduce the oil volume in the alternator cover.

3. Place an oil catch pan under the left side of the engine to collect what small amount of oil that will escape when the alternator cover is removed.

4. Remove the foot shifter lever, left foot peg assembly and the sprocket cover.

5. Some Kawasaki’s have socket head cap screws(Allen type) and others may have fasteners with a Phillips type. If the latter is there, a # 3 bit seems to work the best for removal.

6. Remove the alternator cover and take care with the three wires coming from the alternator stator. These are the voltage supply wires for the motorcycle. Rest the cover on some newspaper or rags to prevent damage.

7. The magnetic Rotor or flywheel will probably require a removal bolt or puller. NOTE, SOME ENGINES HAVE LEFT HAND THREADS ON THE ROTOR!!

8. The over running clutch is bolted to the back of the rotor with three Allen head fasteners.

9. Separate the rotor from the over running clutch and inspect for damage in the springs, rollers, and spring caps. Replace any worn parts.

10. Re-assemble in reverse order taking care when re-installing the Alternator cover not to pinch any wires. If the cover will not re-install without force, check before any damage occurs.

11. Read this procedure from Red Line Cycle:
redlinecycle.com/Starter%20Clutch%20Tech.html

I saw this in some other posts, but it doesn't answer if it is the starter or the starter clutch....
Which one is causing the problem? Starter itself or the Starter Clutch?
Thank you though.

If the starter is spinning, but the motor isn't, it's definitely the clutch.

Kinda like if your motor spins, but your wheels don't.

Clutch for sure.

Pull the starter anyways and give her a good cleanout while you have things apart. It helps alot.

And you can double check it by connecting it to the battery.

What grade/type of engine oil being used? If car oil, they contain a friction modifier not kind to wet plate clutches and starter clutches. The car oils were modified to meet EPA standards for gas mileages.

Best Oils To Use In Your Bike (Just My Opinion)

Engine oil : The commercial grade oils are clearly superior to the mass market oils. For the best protection in your bike or car, use Shell Rotella Synthetic, available at Wal-Mart in blue containers . For the best petroleum oil you can buy, get Shell Rotella T, Mobil Delvac 1300, or Chevron Delo 400, available at any auto parts store. On the back of most oil cans is a circular stamp with the certification. Avoid oils that say "energy conserving" in the bottom half of the donut. These oils contain friction modifier additives that could cause clutch slipping over time. All XXw-20 and XXw-30 oils are energy conserving, and should not be used in your motorcycle. Don't buy any oil additives like STP or Slick-50. Here's several listings on all about oil justifying these conclusions.

The Recommended Synthetic Oils :

Shell Rotella Synthetic
5w-40 Delvac 1 Synthetic
5w-40 Mobil-1 SUV/Truck Synthetic
5w-40 AMSOil AMF Synthetic (pricey, but it’s your money)
10w-40 Golden Spectro Synthetic
10w-50 Motul 5100 Synthetic
10w-40 Mobil-1 Synthetic
15w-50 Mobil-1 MX4T Synthetic

The best synthetics are: (in no particular order)

Shell Rotella-T Synthetic 5w-40 (blue container, not white), gallon at Wal-Mart.
Mobil Delvac-1 5w-40 (grey container, not black), gallon at Petro stations, gallon at Farm and Fleet.
Mobil-1 SUV 5w-40, qt anywhere.
AMSOil AMF 10w-40 synthetic motorcycle oil. (again, pricey)
Golden Spectro Supreme, (no price).
Motul 5100 Ester, (no price).

Mobil-1 automotive oils all contain small amounts of moly - about 100 to 200 ppm. This can cause clutch slippage in some motorcycles. I've only heard of this being a problem in Honda Shadows.

For temperatures below -40, I strongly recommend either Mobil-1 0w-30 or the Canadian Shell 0w-40 Rotella. At these temperatures, your car is your life. Using cheap or incorrect oil is risking your life.

For temperatures below -55c, -65f, stay home. Really.

The Recommended Petroleum Oils

Chevron Delo 400 15w-40
Delvac 1300 15w-40
Shell Rotella 15w-40

The best petroleum oils are: (in no particular order)

Chevron Delo 400 15w-40 (blue container) gallon at any auto parts store, gallons at Costco.

Mobil Delvac 1300 15w-40 (black container) gallon at any auto parts store, gallons at Sam's Club.

Shell Rotella-T 15w-40 (white container) gallon at Wal-Mart or any auto parts store, gallons at Sam's Club.

Castrol 15w-40 (Green container) gallon at Wal-Mart or any auto parts store, gallons at Sam’s club.

If you live in another country, you'll have to do a bit of research to decide on an oil. Generally, any oil certified for use in a late model Volks wagon or Mercedes turbo diesel is a good choice. Another good idea is to go to a truck stop and ask the truckers about brands. Rotella is marketed all over the world, but in other countries it's called Rotella or Rimola or Helix Ultra, and the formulation may be a bit different, depending on local climate and preferences. It will likely also be a lot more expensive than it is here.

PROTECTING THE 3 CRUCIAL ZONES OF YOUR ENGINE BY CASTROL
Castrol Trizone technology™ represents the 21st century approach to 4T motorcycle oils. Castrol 4T oils developed with Trizone technology™ offers the protection needed to get the most out of your motorcycle.

The 4T motorcycle engine, unlike the car engine, has a very compact oil system, where the engine, clutch and gear zones are combined and use the same oil. In a car engine, the three zones are separated, with the engine and gearbox using specific oils. The ideal 4T motorcycle oil has to meet the very different requirements in all three zones of the bike: engine, clutch and gears.

A CHANGING ENVIRONMENT
Europe is one of the most demanding motorcycle markets in the world: European riders demand performance, quality and versatility from their machines. Operating conditions vary from near desert heat in the south to sub arctic cold in the far north, from coastal plains to high mountain passes, from stop start city traffic to wide open motorways. Noise, gaseous emissions, consumer demands and safety to name a few have all had effects on motorcycle design. Increasingly, it’s the four-stroke engine that powers big bikes, with the two-stroke confined to use in small scooters, off road and competition. Today’s high-precision, high performance four-stroke motorcycle engine provides many challenges for its engine oil.

Motorcycle engines produce a lot of power for their weight. Part of the secret lies in high engine speeds: a truck engine produces peak power at about two and a half thousand RPM and a car
engine at around six thousand RPM. Modern four-stroke motorcycle engines can rev up to 15
thousand RPM or more.

The circulating oil comes under huge thermal stress as it transfers heat away from low mass components under high power conditions. High piston speeds and power output generate very high temperatures - with few places for that heat to go. The oil plays a crucial cooling role – which demands oils with exceptional high thermal stability. But there are many other challenges that a lubricant must face:

Poor quality oil can vaporise leading to a rapid rise in oil consumption - and a fall in protection.

Compact multicylinder multivalve engines use complex oil circuitry with narrow oilways - the oil needs to be fluid enough to keep flowing under all conditions.

Deposits can build up on the pistons and rings - the oil needs to keep these clean. All the while, the oil is carrying combustion by products and wear metals into the sump and filter.
Compared with truck or car engines, motorcycle engines are much smaller and lighter. Most four-stroke motorcycle engines and the lubrication systems are combined so that all these zones rely on the same oil: one oil to do three different but equally important jobs - to protect the engine, gearbox and clutch.

INTRODUCTIONENGINECLUTCHGEARBOX
Can heavy-duty diesel oil be used in motorcycles?

Motorcycle gasoline engines may not seem in the same league as the big displacement diesel engine under your hood, but they share some of the same lubrication requirements. So yes, in many cases, a premium heavy-duty universal oil capable of serving both diesel and gasoline engines is the best choice for your bike.


The high power-to-displacement ratio of a motorcycle engine means rod and main bearings are subjected to loads that are not normally found in passenger car engines. The valve train is also highly loaded, and requires extreme pressure boundary lubrication. The same can be said about gears in the transmission, which are normally lubricated by engine oil. Oil additives containing phosphorus protect these highly loaded extreme pressure areas (in both gasoline and diesel engines). Because diesel engines have higher loading of components, more of the phosphorus-containing additive is present than in typical passenger car oils. And with advanced catalyst systems for gasoline engines, the phosphorus content has been declining in passenger car oils.


Since many motorcycle engines are air-cooled, and tend to be operated at high power outputs and speeds, their lubricating oil needs to be more resistant to high temperature oxidation. That’s another advantage of a premium universal oil. Another thing you want in your motorcycle is oil that has excellent viscosity control, so that with use it retains high temperature viscosity. Some multiviscosity grade passenger car oils, subjected to extreme loads, can quickly thin out. Their viscosity can drop to the next lower grade.

One last thing to consider is whether oil contains friction modifier additives. For improved fuel economy, most passenger car oils have such an additive. But the wet clutch in your bike doesn’t perform right with friction modifiers. Universal engine oils don’t have friction modifiers.

Be careful choosing diesel oils. Not all of them are universal. In addition to the API Service Category CI-4 PLUS for diesels, look for API Service Category SL.

Premium universal oils like Shell ROTELLA T Multigrade are formulated for heavy-duty performance, and your bike engine has some heavy-duty challenges for oil. For optimum performance, be sure your oil is up to the challenge.

OK, thanks for the replies.
Took the cover off, removed the idler gear and hit the starter, spins just fine.
It is the starter clutch... Now that I have already ordered a starter for it, does anyone need a starter? Got one for sale... haha.
Pulling the rotor off as soon as I get the removal tool from a buddy, then I'll check the condition of the pins and springs... Clean it up and if there isn't too much damage, I'll just put it back together tightened up and see if it works. If it doesn't, I'll pull it off again and do a rebuild kit in it. I'll order that from Z1enterprises.
Question? To put the rotor back on, is that just a matter of using a plastic hammer to put it back on.

Took it apart, found that there is a busted needle bearing that is tearing up the whole bearing casing. Also, the 3 allen bolts holding the Clutch to the rotor were all loose, 2 full turns loose. No loctite on them at all. Took it all apart, 33 springs were different lengths, one pin was totally busted.
I am posting a video to Youtube showing all of the damage at www.youtube.com/shannonbeau
Check out the video and see all of the carnage. I have the Clutch repair kit on order from Z1enterprises.com and am now looking to find the needle bearing, if you know where I can find that, let me know. Would love to replace that while I have it all apart.

One caution. These tend to get the skips and have difficulty with the one way clutch on the starter holding once they have been taken apart if the old parts are reused. They may not look that worn, but as a matter of course I would replace the entire part # 13193-1006 and part # 92026-112.

12,Also, if you presently have a follow-on rattle or growl once the bike has started take a good look at the starter motor gear, Part # 21167-002, and the pin on which it rotates. That gear and pin tends to wear the center bearing surface after only thirty or so years and then cocks under load and puts the starter clutch assembly in a bind causing it to skip or rattle. One problem looks like the other.

Use assembly lube when putting the starter gear back together with the pin.

lol shannon i did the same thing bought a starter and didnt need it, I also found your video helpful I also noticed when you were putting it back together there was a spacer missing the spacer that goes inbetween the the clutch and magneto anywys thanks Also like to say this is a cool site