valve adjustment kz750e1

hey ereebody,

so my bike starts and runs fine. that being said IMO it suffers from some serious valve tap. i was told by my peers that all bikes tap(?) and that it is fine. i disagree and my fabricator friend concurs.
so now for the questions
1. do they all sound like they have marbles in the top end?
2. i got the service manual and from what i read it seems like something i could handle( have access to proper tools ). i also got a quote for the lighter side of two hundred dollars. is this something that is alot more involved than i am understanding it to be, and if so is two hundo a reasonable price?

thanks

Your manual should show you that the shims for adjustment are under the bucket. This means that the camshafts must be removed for changing the shims. You can pull the valve cover and check the clearance. It could be noise from the chain and tensioner.
Here is a picture of the shim under bucket assy. #9 is the shim.



And this is the Cams/ Chain? Tensioner/ Guides

Marbles = cam chain , tensioner , guides
No noise = a dead or soon to be dead head
Temporarily clamp off the the line to the vacuum petcock . Does the ticking/tapping stop ?
insert a restriction in the vacuum line (0.025")
The reeds in the cam cover can also make odd noises .
Poor valve adjust , wildly out of sync carbs as a result and inaccurate idle mixture will cause the whole bike to sound like a box of rocks at or below 1000 rpm .
Remember this bike uses an internal primary chain to connect the crank to the gearbox , so even more backlash . I personally recommend a slightly higher idle speed than OEM specified to keep everything moving in the same direction .

So in summary with the disclaimer that I can and regularly do come off as an azz ....

"i disagree and my fabricator friend concurs. "
Neither you or your fabricator friend have 30+ years experience with motorcycles or you wouldn't be asking the question here

As above , when in a poor state of tune they can sound like a box o rocks .

$200 is fair for a shim under bucket 8 valve head but I bet the replacement shims and the cam cover gasket are extra .

Yes , most intelligent , organized individuals "can" perform a shim under bucket valve adjust without catastrophic results .

Most common problem isn't getting the cam timing back the way it's supposed to be it's not ruining the 6mm threads in the head . I've had no issues with installing these capscrews with as little as 7 1/2 Ft/lbs of torque in CLEAN DRY THREADS. Otherwise use no more than 10 Ft/Lbs and that at your own risk . When reinstalling the cam cover grease all fasteners as they are exposed to the elements . Observe the same torque cautions as used inside the engine .

The stock cam chain stretcher is junk .Replace with a manual tensioner .

That should be enough to get you into trouble that only the factory service manual can get you out of .

~kop

kopcicle wrote: So in summary with the disclaimer that I can and regularly do come off as an azz ....
~kop

No kidding!!

But it's good to have company :evil:

ya be an ass all you want if you want to keep info like that coming!.....the vacuum hose didnt stop the noise....def dont have 30 yrs exp with anything,haha my bike was born before i was! but in my friends defense he is far more knowledgeable than i....me=ignent. im bringing it in and was told that throwing in a cam chain adjustment bumps up the price another couple hundred and that yess parts will be another hundred. looking at about 5 hundred now. anybody in new england that can beat that let me know(is that against the rules? if so, disregard).....and where to find a manual tensioner?...or is it something thats made?

Speaking of the service manual i was changing my sprockets and chain yesterday, got the back done and moved on the the front put the bike into gear as the rear brakes and chain werent reassembled yet, and went to put the impact gun on the gearnut and before i started i got into an argument about whether it was reverse thread or not...so i went to the manual to verify and found that that is an absolutely horrible and wrong way to remove the front sprocket......

lesson learned----refer to manual first!


thanks for the info sir.


me gusta mucho.

.

Don't see how they could charge another couple hundred for a cam chain adjustment, they have to pull the tensioner off to pull out the camshafts to get to the shims. It really sounds like the shop in question does not realize what it will take to do the job, they think the valves will adjust from a screw on a rocker arm probably. Look for someone who knows Older bikes, or some place that knows about shim under bucket engines. Most all of the new street and dirt 4 stroke stuff is built this way as well.
Manual adjuster is a good idea, but unless their quote of another couple of hundred includes the APE adjuster and the shim prices, gaskets etc, sounds like a bad deal.

hey thanks forinput..

i told them they were shim under bucket.....they said that added to the price.....and they asked where the cam chain was and from what i gathered from the manual i told him it was pretty deep....i guess i should have looked for specifically where the adjuster was and if it required further disassembly.
price not including parts..... the dealership was actually pretty difficult about the whole thing when i called and asked for the shims they first told me they would not sell me any without the old ones. then i asked them for a whole bunch that id pay for and return the ones i didnt use. no. i talked them to the point where theyd sell me only what i need without bringin the old ones(for ten dollars). so i would have to disasssemble measure what was needed and go get them. but at that point i might as well trade the old ones in. lol they also told me they wouldnt work on my bike( not that i wanted to bring it there). anybody have a way of getting shims not from a stealership...kind of dont want to give them my money now. or is this common and im being spoiled...completely possible.

any way i thought 5 was pretty steep.....plus i hadnt gotten the idea for the ape adjstr until this morning so im figuring its gonna go even higher now...

hey thanks martin...you da man

Z1 will have the 13mm shims. You can either buy a kit that has a range of sizes, or first measure your clearances, remove and measure the shims, swap a couple around to get those adjusted, then order the couple you need along with the other parts.
You got to be kidding $500 and no parts! WTF! Stealership is pretty kind words:unsure:
You can do this yourself, with a good manual, and some basic tools. There is always good help on the Forum here if you need some questions answered, KZR is great!

Motor Head wrote: or first measure your clearances

x 2

It's not difficult to measure the clearances. Take off the tank. take off the brackets that the coils are attached to. Take off the valve cover and follow the instructions in the manual. If you are lucky you may not even need to change shims. My clearances have not changed in 10,000km. It's a good idea to have replacement valve cover gasket at hand.

Changing the cam chain tensioner to a manual one is a piece of cake and will take a fraction of the time you took to change 1 sprocket.

Good luck

Thanks lemy and jr
ya I'ma go spheres deep in this thing in the morning then. After I get a gasket and review the manual. Ill be back here probably sooner than later