Running VERY poorly 650!!!!

Hi folks, let me sum up my problem hence far
1982 KZ 650 CSR
1.) New plug wires
2.) New plug caps
3.) New spark plugs
4.) Oiled advancer unit
...the 650 goes for a while good then develops a stutter
5.) Cleaned carbs
...Barely runs or runs like crap
6.) Cleaned carbs again
number 2 cylinder fires about 1/2 the time at idle. Bike stutters heavily past 4K RPM no matter how much throttle is applied
7.) Checked ignition system, WG coil power fix
No change
8.) Soldered all bullet point connects, checked voltage in all wires
No change, wiring is fine
9.) Checked compression
(Starting from 1) 135-135-140-145
10.)Checked plugs
1&2-Black and sooty, 3&4-Tan
11.) Dynamically checked spark - looks great on all cylinders

This bike still runs like crap (see no. 6). What the hell is going on? I'm going nuts over here, is there something that I could have done do the carbs to cause this?

1 quick question, the idle jet "plugs" have O-Ring's on em, if those are bad could that cause this problem?


PLEASE HELP!

I think we can eliminate the ignition system because it's has a problem with one and two and they are on two different coils.
I have read your list of things you have done, and I don't see where it says you set the float levels. Did you?

Nope. Was thinking of that, but I thought there was probably another problem since I've seen bikes run way better than mine with gas overflowing in the carb (including mine at one point). This bike is basically unrideable as is... I'll be taking more suggestions for tommorrow when I pick out the carbs, for the third time :dry:

Peter

Maybe it's a combination of float levels and carb synchronization?

This is a WiredGeorge topic, not one I'm good at

Allow me to break down the performance issue more clearly

Starts great

at idle - no. 2 cylinder fires sometimes (maybe 1/4 or a 1/2 of the time).

from 1.5K-4K, bike runs fine from 1/4-1/2 throttle.

From 4K-9K, bike runs poorly, at least 1 cylinder is cutting out completely.

At WOT, any RPM range, the bike sputters and runs very poorly.

The bike runs worse than when the advancer was rusted shut!

No. 1 and no. 2 plugs look black and sooty.

Here is my list of work so far

1.) Check ignition timing dynamically
2.) Remove carburators, replace pilot jet plug O-rings, replace O-rings in fuel rail (little leaking problem)
3.) Set float level
4.) Synchronize carburators

But I seriously doubt that will solve the problem (unless no. 1 is seriously off), because it is so bad. I'm taking suggestions, at this point - I'll try anything.

So lets get this bike working, gang. I got a stock harley twin to race for pinks.
Peter

Post edited by: newbikekiller, at: 2006/05/01 02:41

Suppose cam timing is suspect in this case? I've heard that that will cause VERY poor performance, but something tells me I wouldn't be getting the compression I'm getting and it wouldn't start/idle as well as it does???

Peter

Check the intake boots for leaks.
Sync carbs, Cheap way is with a drill bit. Slide the bit under the slide in the carb for a measurement and make sure they are all the same.

Make sure your jets are not broken at the screw slot either this will mess with fuel metering. Jets are cheap I recamend just replacing them.

I don't think it's cam timing, compression seems high enough.

You don't mention anything about your intake system. What do you got? Stock airbox, pods, nothing at all? Any airfilter? Is it clean or dirty?

And how did you set the floats? Dry or wet? In my opinion, setting KZ floats dry is a waste of time, they should be set wet.

You have an electronic Ign. on the '82 correct?

I converted my '78 to elec., and had similar problems. Turned out to be the IC Igniter was not working properly. There should be a testing procedure using an ohm meter in the manual. I'd check that.

Yes, it does have electronic ignition.
I hope that any problems with the ignitor will show up on the timing test I do today (just gotta grab a timing gun). That will be the first thing I do since it's the most suspect part. I tried to do the test, and it failed, but then again my ohmmeter sucks and I tested the one off my parts bike and it failed too so I figured it was probably giving off bogus numbers.

-stock airbox.
-clean airfilter.
-I've tested for leaks in the boots, there are none.
-The jets are not broken, but I'll check them again, maybe just replace them as suggested if nothing else. I need a size up mains anyway.

I'll do a bench sync as suggested.


Peter

I'm having a similar problem.. only its now a misfire that I can't track down.. idles like marbles are in the intake. It will idle, just sounds like crap.
When goosed, it sounds great, pulls great other than the misfire at constant 1/4 throttle.

So, what I've found so far:

- cleand and reseated all bullet connectors. (helped tremendously as 1/4 coil was dead) Found this by laying each plug against the block and trying the kick start. When 1/4 didn't spark, found a loose connector.
- had major problems with fuse holders being too loose. cleaned and tightened and they seem better now.

- pulled plugs, cleaned and gapped. All look OK.

- old coils, old wires, old plug boots. (don't know if thats the problem)

- Have pulled and cleaned the carbs 2 times. Set float level last time and installed new bowl gaskets. I'm not 100% sure #3 isn't overfilling still because it drains gasoline like you wouldn't believe. 1 gal in 20 minutes with choke partially on :S
- Did a fine sync of carbs with carb stix. I will do this again now that I have good bowl gaskets.

- It has Dyna II elec ignition, but my next step is to go back to a point set and see if it makes any difference.

- also will check timing of each cylinder and do a compression test.

This is a real head scratcher :silly: