How tight should the sleeves be in the block?

I just ordered another cylinder for the 1000 off of ebay. I plan to bore it out to 1075 as my current cylinder has some nasty score marks in it. It is stock in every way.

I noticed that when I got it, one of the cylinder sleeves was standing proud of the head gasket surface. I tapped it lightly with a rubber mallet and it dropped right back in. I thought that maybe they should be a little tighter than that.

I got curious and heated the block in the oven and dropped all the sleeves and cleaned all the gunk out of the little nooks and crannies - there was no evidence or wear that would indicate the sleeve was moving back and forth or rotating when the engine was running.

I know that it is important to have the sleeves well seated when putting the engine together so you don't have uneven head gasket pressures. I assume that after it is put together, the clamping pressure will more or less keep the sleeves in place. Especially since at operating temp, the block probably has a pretty lose grip on the sleeves from expansion anyways.

Should I drop some loctite sleeve retainer in there to secure the sleeves after seating them? Should I be worried about reduced heat transfer? Will the sleeves spin in the block under the stress of boring them out?

-Dave

as long as the head is torqued down it holds cylinder/sleeves in place

beefsquasher wrote:

I just ordered another cylinder for the 1000 off of ebay. I plan to bore it out to 1075 as my current cylinder has some nasty score marks in it. It is stock in every way.

I noticed that when I got it, one of the cylinder sleeves was standing proud of the head gasket surface. I tapped it lightly with a rubber mallet and it dropped right back in. I thought that maybe they should be a little tighter than that.

I got curious and heated the block in the oven and dropped all the sleeves and cleaned all the gunk out of the little nooks and crannies - there was no evidence or wear that would indicate the sleeve was moving back and forth or rotating when the engine was running.

I know that it is important to have the sleeves well seated when putting the engine together so you don't have uneven head gasket pressures. I assume that after it is put together, the clamping pressure will more or less keep the sleeves in place. Especially since at operating temp, the block probably has a pretty lose grip on the sleeves from expansion anyways.

Should I drop some loctite sleeve retainer in there to secure the sleeves after seating them? Should I be worried about reduced heat transfer? Will the sleeves spin in the block under the stress of boring them out?

-Dave

Dave,

Stock, the aluminum block should have about .004" crush on the sleeve. Here's how sleeves can get loose.

Some machine shop operators will use their power hone to bore cylinders. It's the old "time is money" scenario. They'll setup the power hone and it will be running while they're attending other shop work.

The'll crank too much pressure and before you know it...wizzzzzz. The sleeve is spinning in the aluminum bore....

A 1075 kit is 2mm over for a kz1000. I know a place that will set it up and hone the whole job

The Green Sleeve Retainer is good stuff but it's got to be used properly. All Loctite products have specific clearance ranges for which they are designed. Measure what you have and choose the correct bond product based on the application and clearance you have.

When you put the sleeves back in after heating the block, they need some pressure on top to prevent from pushing up on you. If you have a press, setup the block and just put a little pressure the sleeve surface while it cools completely.

I've seen blocks resleeved & resurfaced that later on allowed the sleeves to drop down after engine heat was applied. Result, big time head gasket leaks.

Larry C

I have some cylinders that fit perfect in the jug. If you wanna let me know

stock blocks do not have near the press fit that an experienced machinist would insure was there.
i have been boring 900 blocks out and not had the parallels under the center sleeves.while i was boring an unsupported center sleeve i noticed a wierd sound,i looked over and the cylinder had dropped out and was spinning in the block.lucky for my customer the sleeve did not get any wierd cut marks,i slipped it back in supported it with a parallel finished the cut and honed it.i did not use any loctite although i don't believe it could hurt.
all the sleeves were loose and this cylinder had never been bored or sleeved before.i could tap any of em with a soft faced mallet and knock them out.
as plummen stated the head gasket and torque will keep them in place and not allow them to spin.

leon

beefsquasher wrote:

I just ordered another cylinder for the 1000 off of ebay. I plan to bore it out to 1075 as my current cylinder has some nasty score marks in it. It is stock in every way.

I noticed that when I got it, one of the cylinder sleeves was standing proud of the head gasket surface. I tapped it lightly with a rubber mallet and it dropped right back in. I thought that maybe they should be a little tighter than that.

I got curious and heated the block in the oven and dropped all the sleeves and cleaned all the gunk out of the little nooks and crannies - there was no evidence or wear that would indicate the sleeve was moving back and forth or rotating when the engine was running.

I know that it is important to have the sleeves well seated when putting the engine together so you don't have uneven head gasket pressures. I assume that after it is put together, the clamping pressure will more or less keep the sleeves in place. Especially since at operating temp, the block probably has a pretty lose grip on the sleeves from expansion anyways.

Should I drop some loctite sleeve retainer in there to secure the sleeves after seating them? Should I be worried about reduced heat transfer? Will the sleeves spin in the block under the stress of boring them out?

-Dave

I believe your second paragraph is the question. To prevent hot spots on the cylinder walls, the sleeves and block must not allow for any voids in between them. The voids will slow down heat transfer to the block. That is not a good thing. So the sleeves and the block need to be free of taper and be perfectly round with a light press fit.

The sleeves in KZ1000s are too loose from the factory. We have special fixturing we bolt them into when we bore and hone them to keep the sleeves from moving.

These are the only ones. 900s seem to be OK.

Once had a guy pull up in front of the shop in his pickup with a 1000 block in the bed that he was bringing us. He jumped out, reached in and grabbed the block and as he turned around, all four sleeves came out and were rolling around in the street.

Larry:.004 crush,how many marks is that on a stanley fat max tape measure? :S :laugh: