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"break in oil" - product alert - avoid this one!
- Injected
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My buddy used this product this summer on some virgin "perfect bores" with some brand new Kawasaki OEM rings (1015cc) on OEM cast iron liners.
The motor upon start up smoked non stop after the first 10 seconds after start up... the motor ran for another 3-4 minutes before he shut it down and tore into it to see the issue - the rings had been "whipped over on the leading edge" and looked like they had 100K miles on them... the way it smoked he thought he forgot to valve seals in it or maybe he forgot the oil rings but actually nothing was wrong except he was using this product for the first time.
The rings did not seat at all.
He drained the oil and changed the filter then lightly honed the liners and put another set of new OEM rings on the stock pistons. He filled up with his regular oil (see bottom)with no additives and started it up... no smoking and correctly broke in rings.
He called the local distributor and that guy said he had the same issue with this product in his personal race car - a 700 CI Pro Mod mountain motor drag car... he ended up solving the smoking by shutting off his water pump and making a full 1/4 mile pass under full power thereby seating the rings and avoiding stripping it down.
The guy who told me about this owns a high performance motorcycle shop and has put together countless motors and this was the first time he ever got a "surprise" like the one from this product although he uses the Brad Penn Grade 1 oils (like the old Kendal green) and swears by them because they have correct levels of ZDDP for flat tappet motors... He believes there might be something "slick" in its composition that is detrimental to ring seating.
DO NOT USE THIS PRODUCT !
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- otakar
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74 Z1-A stock
76 KZ-900 Totaly stock vice MAC pipe
77 KZ-1000A stock
78 Z1-R 100%MINT 500 original Mi.
78 Z1-R Yoshi 1103 kit stage 1 cams Yoshi pipe. Etc
79 KZ-1300 (1400)
80 KZ-1300
81 Scratch built GPz1150R
82 KZ1000
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- bountyhunter
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I rebuilt my KZ 750 engine about 3 years ago and I used a 50-50 mix of castrol GTX and STP oil treatment for coating critical surfaces, including the cylinder walls, rings, cam lobes, etc. The engine broke in perfectly and very quickly. I did not do anything tricky when I started it, I just rode it around on city streets under light throttle openings at first then gradually rode it a little harder.
I am not sure why the Brad Penn oil caused a problem, I have never used it.
1979 KZ-750 Twin
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- Injected
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These are both professionals working in a related industry.
Drag racers usually don't have the luxury of being able to break motors in anyways, so I believe these guys have a set procedure they follow - no idling is a given.
I would not post this as a lark... I thought I should mention it in case anybody is thinking about using it... two horror stories is too much as far as I am concerned.
If it was only the one incident I probably would not waste my time to post it.
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- lemo32
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- The Price of Cool aint cheap
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1979 kz 1000 06 katana 750
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- Kawboy74
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David
1974 Z1A As original as I could get it
'88 ZX750R braided lines, mostly original
KZ1000 project on the bench
Burlington,Ontario,Canada
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- bountyhunter
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The problem is, most current production motor oil does not meet the minimum requirements needed for any flat tappet engine such as these motorcycles. It is only applicable for very late model auto engines. Only specialty oils still have adequate ZDDP levels and the right stuff to work with wet clutches and flat tappet engines.I use whatever mfg, spec engine oil for that engine, I would never use anything like above product, never ever had a problem with rings seating, but thanks for the heads up! :huh:
1979 KZ-750 Twin
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- bountyhunter
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FWIW, After I bored mine, I coated the pistons, rings, walls with a 50-50 mix of castrol and STP so it wouldn't be starting up dry. It took about ten minutes of running to burn the oil out, rings seated perfectly.Did you have oil on the cylinder liners during assembly? I have been told that it's best to run the rings in dry to work with the swirl pattern in the liners as oil in the steel makeup takes a long time (weeks) to burn out of the metal and it will smoke.
1979 KZ-750 Twin
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- kzz1p
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- One Test Is Worth A Thousand Expert Opinions!
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Did you have oil on the cylinder liners during assembly? I have been told that it's best to run the rings in dry to work with the swirl pattern in the liners as oil in the steel makeup takes a long time (weeks) to burn out of the metal and it will smoke. I am assuming it is like getting your car oil sprayed; it works slowly into the metal to protect it.
David
Some companies like MTC, say no oil on the pistons and rings. Some companies like VHR put them together dry, they say the break in peroid is the time it takes to pump oil. If your not sure, ask the company that made the parts.
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- fordtruck
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'77 KZ1000-MTC 1075 kit. Stage 1 port
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- havakaw
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'80 KZ 750 LTD-H
'82 KZ 1100 A-2 Shafty (ex-bagger)
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- larrycavan
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It was the product... both of these guys are not dummy's... the motorcycle guy has over $100K into a Top Fuel Kawasaki and has rebuilt countless Z1 style motors as a living and the distributor has at least $100K into that Pro Mod car... they both had the same issue.
These are both professionals working in a related industry.
Drag racers usually don't have the luxury of being able to break motors in anyways, so I believe these guys have a set procedure they follow - no idling is a given.
I would not post this as a lark... I thought I should mention it in case anybody is thinking about using it... two horror stories is too much as far as I am concerned.
If it was only the one incident I probably would not waste my time to post it.
Sounds like a bad batch of oil got bottled up and shipped to me.
I've used, Valvoline, Castrol, BelRay, Joe Gibbs, Kendal and Rotella to break in motors. Sometimes with lifter lube additives, sometimes not. Never had or seen an issue like that. Oh.... I even had to use STP one time in a 351 Windsor because the guy insisted on it
I know a car engine builder that dyno's at least 3 motors a week that has broken in race engines with Mobil 1. No issues with ring seating their either.
It's rare, but not unheard of to get bad motor oil from a good name company. Remember the Kendall incident a number of years back?
Thanks for the heads up. I'm going to talk to the local speed shop that sells all the racing oils and see if they ran into anything. Some numbers off those bottles would be good to have
I have also posted this on a very good tech site for feedback from our car brothers.
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