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Kz1000 Big bang firing order and crossplane cranks 02 Dec 2009 00:07 #337014

  • Captaingamez
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I noticed that there is almost no information on crossplane cranks and big bang firing orders involved with kz's. i know that it is possible to do with a pressed together crank like on the kz's, with of course the propper cam grind. but has anyone ever done it to a kz1000 or 900? i have found people switching the kz750 twin to a 90 degree firing order (1-1-0-0) the cams to do it to the 750 as i have been told are also available.

of course i can only immagine how much it would cost to get a specially designed set of cams made for a 1000. but it would be the only real cost of achieving this goal if you have the capability to disassemble and reassemble a crank and re work the points to fire the coils propperly.

any ideas?
1979 Kz1000 MKII road racer project
1994 Seca II, pile in the corner
1973 Honda cb175 cafe racer
1971 Yamaha AT1
1975 Massey Fergusson MF440
1971 Skiroule 300rr

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Kz1000 Big bang firing order and crossplane cranks 02 Dec 2009 05:26 #337028

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ummm, why would you want to do that?, I dont see any advantage
77 kz650, owned for over 25 years
77 ltd1000, current rider
76 kz900, just waiting
73 z1,, gonna restore this one
piglet, leggero harley davidson
SR, Ride captian, S.E.Texas Patriot Guard Riders.. AKA KawaBob

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Kz1000 Big bang firing order and crossplane cranks 02 Dec 2009 07:16 #337037

  • PLUMMEN
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eeeeeeeeek techno talk,save yourselves boys! :laugh:
Still recovering,some days are better than others.
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Kz1000 Big bang firing order and crossplane cranks 02 Dec 2009 07:32 #337040

  • Captaingamez
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haha, i totaly forgot to mention the advantages of this setup. SO, if anyone follows racing (motogp in particular) many many many race engines (all motogp engines) have this configuration of their cylinders. it allows the rider to have more control over rear wheel spin in a slide or when starting to slide. Also most people do it to twins because it is cheaper and produces an almost vtwin like effeck on the powerband. giving a much higher take off speed from a dead stop. (not for drag racing) the new yamaha r1 production bike also uses this method. and on top of all of this. a bike pushing this firind order would sound like the singing of angels from the heavens.
1979 Kz1000 MKII road racer project
1994 Seca II, pile in the corner
1973 Honda cb175 cafe racer
1971 Yamaha AT1
1975 Massey Fergusson MF440
1971 Skiroule 300rr

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Kz1000 Big bang firing order and crossplane cranks 02 Dec 2009 07:39 #337041

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i am going to be track racing my 400 lb kz by the way. not having all that kz torque throw me off my bike from wheel hop would be nice
1979 Kz1000 MKII road racer project
1994 Seca II, pile in the corner
1973 Honda cb175 cafe racer
1971 Yamaha AT1
1975 Massey Fergusson MF440
1971 Skiroule 300rr

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Kz1000 Big bang firing order and crossplane cranks 02 Dec 2009 09:08 #337047

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Captaingamez wrote:

i am going to be track racing my 400 lb kz by the way. not having all that kz torque throw me off my bike from wheel hop would be nice


Are you talking about wheel hop from acceleration or deceleration?

I highly doubt you'll have to worry about spinning the rear wheel coming off of corners with today's tire technology and the power amount even a hopped-up Kz can produce.

And in order to control wheel hop on decel, a slipper clutch would be the best option and that wouldn't be cheap but cheaper than a custom crank and set of cams.

Later, Doug
1978 z1000 Streetfighter
1976 z900 Stripfighter (work in progress)
1983 Gpz750 Resto-Mod
1989 Vmax

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Kz1000 Big bang firing order and crossplane cranks 02 Dec 2009 09:46 #337050

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actually wheel hop because of the weight of my bike has already become a minor issue on the road. if i was actually trying to go faster it would become more of an issue. on a lightened race bike the kz engine's torque delivery becomes a bit of an issue in itself. though a slipper clutch would probably do the job just the same and i had made a post about that as well which i recieved little feedback on.

this isnt really something i was planning to do on the cheap. i have my own shop capabilities to re-phase the crank so thats not the issue. as i said the only cost for me in any case would be the cams, since i dont have a cnc grinder.

or the clutch, which i could do in addition and have nearly perfect traction in the corners. the main reason in any case to have a big bang firing order is because you have a particularly light bike with a particularly high ammount of horsepower and torque. (I.E. MotoGP, Superbike, ect)

My real question was if anyone has ever attempted it before, as i said i know people who have done it to a 750 twin And i just read about someone who did it to a cb750k which i would deem much more dificult and would require a custom crank. yamaha actually does it to most of their foreign large capacity twins as well.

and come on guys any power hungry gearhead can see why this would be an awesome setup y must we be stuck with 1-2-4-3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1979 Kz1000 MKII road racer project
1994 Seca II, pile in the corner
1973 Honda cb175 cafe racer
1971 Yamaha AT1
1975 Massey Fergusson MF440
1971 Skiroule 300rr

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Kz1000 Big bang firing order and crossplane cranks 02 Dec 2009 10:04 #337052

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ive seen differant camshafts for chevy v8s to change firing order like youre talking.i figure theres enough other issues like junk frames,brakes,tires........ that are enough to keep my mind spinning without reinventing the crankshaft and cams on these motors,which by the way i feel is the strong point of these bikes to begin with,bulletproof simple motor! :laugh:
Still recovering,some days are better than others.

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Kz1000 Big bang firing order and crossplane cranks 02 Dec 2009 11:06 #337071

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I understand why MotoGP does this, but they were running into traction problems when the engines were approaching 250hp. even with a very well built big block kz1000 based engine i doubt you could even tell its been done other than a different exhaust note.
Matt Milwaukee, WI
75' KZ400, (5) 78' KZ400, 76' KZ 750, 78' KZ650
78'CB750F, 78' CB550K
89' BMW R100RT
05' H-D Electra Glide
06' KLR650
Do it right or don't bother doing it at all.

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Kz1000 Big bang firing order and crossplane cranks 02 Dec 2009 12:10 #337085

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Captaingamez wrote:

actually wheel hop because of the weight of my bike has already become a minor issue on the road. if i was actually trying to go faster it would become more of an issue. on a lightened race bike the kz engine's torque delivery becomes a bit of an issue in itself.


You didn't answer my question. Is the wheel hop occuring acceleration or deceleration?

Later, Doug
1978 z1000 Streetfighter
1976 z900 Stripfighter (work in progress)
1983 Gpz750 Resto-Mod
1989 Vmax

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Kz1000 Big bang firing order and crossplane cranks 02 Dec 2009 12:23 #337086

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flht1997 wrote:

I understand why MotoGP does this, but they were running into traction problems when the engines were approaching 250hp. even with a very well built big block kz1000 based engine i doubt you could even tell its been done other than a different exhaust note.

250hp is crazy enough in a straight line,couldnt imagine it in a hard corner full throttle! :woohoo:
Still recovering,some days are better than others.

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Kz1000 Big bang firing order and crossplane cranks 02 Dec 2009 15:54 #337131

  • larrycavan
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Kawasaki has something brewing ZX10wise that you might want to research.

It's power to weight that's going to determine traction problems as much as anything.

I never fault anyone for wanting to think outside the box. If the skills are there to make use of, then "even if" the end doesn't justify the means.......it can be worth the effort from other aspects.

What you learn from one thing can be applied somwhere else in future.......generally anyway ;)

Rob Muzzy coaxed 152HP out of Eddie's bike. I believe it was 1015cc but may have been 1025 at the time.The guys on the Kawasaki Hotline were housed in the same building back then. We had a discussion about the motors after the litre bike race team was abandoned in 83.

According to what I was told way back then, that particular engine didn't run very well below 7000 RPM or so. Now if you're contemplating going that radical with a roadrace engine in an old Kawasaki chassis....God bless you and hopefully someone else isn't saying "God rest his soul" :laugh:

If you were crazy enough to wander down that path, then it might be worth the effort :ohmy:

What I can tell you is, it's not going to be cheap. I doubt anyone even has cam cores to start with so they would probably be a pricy item....IF you got someone to do it.

If you're serious, call Web or CamMotion and start right there. That will determine if you're even going to get to first base..

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