Engine oil turns black 50 miles after oil change

Ok, I'll stick with Rotella-T. Thanks.

otakar wrote:

bountyhunter wrote:

onanysunday wrote:

I like the 15w-45 viscosity of Rotella. I buy the 4 qt. jugs for about $9. I thought of using even cheaper car oils but I thought smaller motorcycle engines had different additive package requirements-something about different Ash or Zinc requirements than car engines? Is that true?

The problem is most name brand oils are eliminating zinc and phos additives and any flat tappet engine really needs them. I add a some ZDDPlus to mine to be safe.

This is correct, Zinc and Sulfur, which are necessary for our engines are bring removed. The problem with ZDDPluss is that it more than doubles the price of the oil. For $8+ a bottle which treats 5qts. it is outrageous. I use Red Line Additive which costs $12 and treats 16+ Quarts. If you use Rotella-T you do not have to worry about it at all. Rotella has the Zinc and Sulfur and I pay about $8 at Wall-mart for it. I bought ZDDPluss once and it was a ripoff. If you want to use an additive use the Red-Line.

Maybe so, but I recall I wnt to the MSDS sheets on both the redline stuff and ZDDPlus to calculate concentrations of zinc/phos and the ZDDPlus is WAYYY more concentrated. The redline recommends a certain dilution, but does not give anywhere near what ZDDP does because it's more concentrated.

Exactly how much you need is another question, but I believe the ZDDPlus added as prescribed increases the zinc/phos about 2500ppm which is the high end of best range. I recall you could not add enough redline to get near that. ZDDPlus is pricey, but you only need a "half shot" to bump a five quart change up about 1500 ppm as I recall.

If I did it wrong, maybe the numbers are off. But, I am the original skinflint and I recall doing the calcs and coming to the conclusion the ZDDP gives more for your $$$ in zinc/phos than redline. Also, it's more concentrated so you "displace" less oil to get it in the mix.

I think redline is OK stuff, but I think the ZDDPlus can get a higher concentration going. To be sure, many engines don't need a 1500 - 2000ppm bump but the high lift cams might. Redline is probably good for the majority of cases.

regards, apologies if my math is off.

onanysunday wrote:

Ok, I'll stick with Rotella-T. Thanks.

It's probably the one oil (along with amsoil synthetic) that I have never heard a bad word about.

The only fear is they can change the formula without warning or notice.

All internal combustion engines, even rebuilt and new ones, have a small amount of blowby. It is inherant in the design of ringed piston engines. Somewhat worn engines have even more, and you mentioned seeing smoke (I assume oil smoke) at times. This can mean something is beginning to wear, and when you start to get wear in one area (possibly intake valve guides), you start getting wear in all areas. This along with heat (and sometimes heat alone) will turn new oil dark quite quickly. When the effect is minimal, you probably won't notice much oil compsumtion.

All of this is normal, and if your compression, plug readings, etc are correct, and you don't feel any grit in the oil or see junk in the filter, you've probably got nothing to worry about. I used to build pro-stock Mopar engines. We built them somewhat loose. Fantastic power, but the oil would blacken in 2 runs. Normal.

diesel oil turns black quick, no worries..

Keep in mind that like the Bikes, Cars are 4cyl DOHC for many years and Motor oils have developed for running in these much closer tolerance higher RPM engines. Myself I wouldn't buy the Bike motor oil when it is so expensive, there are to many other oils that meet or beat it for much less. Some may say that the additives are different for the wet clutch, but I've never had any clutch issue from a oil.

Interesting thread. I've been using Parts Master 20-50 which is the local parts stores oil (made by Valvoline) Worked great and no problems at all with 1,000 mile changes and filter every other change. Changed oil with Valvoline 15-40 diesel last week and will see how it looks when change time comes.

Black oil doesn't mean its bad. As long as the oil still has it's lubricating properties and isn't broken down, then it will be fine. Quickest way to loose a cam lobe on my car engines is to use a regular oil. Shell Rotella and some cam break in fluid is the way to go for any new engine. I run roller cams these days in my cars, so flat tappets are a thing of the past for my cars anyways.