Strange Vacuum Reading

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16 Jul 2009 20:21 #307494 by bigkaw815
Strange Vacuum Reading was created by bigkaw815
I got a single vacuum gauge today in hopes of syncing my carbs the cheap route one by one. When I hooked it to the first carb, the gauge needle jumped around like crazy! It was jumping from vacuum reading to psi alternately. I assume this means that I have an intake valve hanging open? I know some of my clearances are super tight inside, but I didn't think they were that tight. It has been running pretty well, save for a very erratic idle. Cleaned the pilots, mains and thought that solved the problem. It didn't, which lead me to trying to sync the carbs.
Does this sound right? I wonder if someone could suggest what to do. Simply re-shim the valves or take the head off and check for damage? Had the head off recently to replace head gasket, and it all looked good inside.

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16 Jul 2009 21:23 #307502 by bountyhunter
Replied by bountyhunter on topic Strange Vacuum Reading

If the vacuum reading fluctuates within the normal range-the gauge needle bounces around a lot-uneven compression (broken rings or leaking valves or head gasket in one or two cylinders) is a likely culprit. An uneven air/fuel mix, erratic ignition timing, a misfire, misadjusted valves or a manifold leak near one or two cylinders also are possible causes.

If vacuum drops intermittently at idle, one or more valves may be sticking open or dragging. Higher-than-- normal vacuum at idle is a common clue to overly advanced ignition timing, while low vacuum can indicate retarded timing.


findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3828/is...08/ai_n8978956/pg_2/

1979 KZ-750 Twin

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17 Jul 2009 04:32 - 17 Jul 2009 04:35 #307525 by Old Man Rock
Replied by Old Man Rock on topic Strange Vacuum Reading
Stop-stop-stop for a moment, do not do anything with your valves, yet....

"I got a single vacuum gauge today in hopes of syncing my carbs the cheap route one by one. "

THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DO!!!!
THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY YOU CAN ACCURATELY ACCOMPLISH!!!


Even with my brand new CR specials, one carb tweak effects the others... You will be chasing this all over the place trying to dial in the syncing of your carbs...

You think you have erratic idle now, wait till you see what happens after trying to do this with one vacuum gauge... Seriously, all you will do is totally hose your carbs up!

Jeff @ Z1 or JPCycles offers a set of 4 analog gauges for ~ $60-$80.... Do yourself a HUGE favor, buy a set of 4... ;)

With that said, if your valve clearances are not within spec then yes, get this right first... Shims!

But for KZ Gods sake, buy a set of 4....

OMR

BTW, Did I mention buy a set of 4 gauges... ;)

www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=2727

www.jpcycles.com/Search/ProductDetail?sk...e&Ns=&results=10&No=

1976 KZ900-A4
MTC 1075cc.
Camshafts: Kawi GPZ-1100 .375 lift
Head: P&P via Larry Cavanaugh
ZX636 suspension
MIKUNI, RS-34'S...
Kerker 4-1, 1.5" comp baffle.
Dyna-S E.I.
Earls 10 row Oil Cooler
Acewell 2802 Series Speedo/Tach
Innovate LC1 Wideband 02 AFR meter

Phoenix, Az
Last edit: 17 Jul 2009 04:35 by Old Man Rock.

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17 Jul 2009 06:59 #307550 by flht1997
Replied by flht1997 on topic Strange Vacuum Reading
OMR is correct that it will be difficult if not impossible with one gauge. but you probably do not have a valve problem. the motorcycle specific gauges will have a damper or orific built into them to slow down the effect of the intake pulses. that air is starting and stopping close to 9 times a second at idle.

Matt Milwaukee, WI
75' KZ400, (5) 78' KZ400, 76' KZ 750, 78' KZ650
78'CB750F, 78' CB550K
89' BMW R100RT
05' H-D Electra Glide
06' KLR650
Do it right or don't bother doing it at all.

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17 Jul 2009 07:23 #307553 by Old Man Rock
Replied by Old Man Rock on topic Strange Vacuum Reading
Better yet, spend a little more ($40) and get the Morgan unit.... ;)

1976 KZ900-A4
MTC 1075cc.
Camshafts: Kawi GPZ-1100 .375 lift
Head: P&P via Larry Cavanaugh
ZX636 suspension
MIKUNI, RS-34'S...
Kerker 4-1, 1.5" comp baffle.
Dyna-S E.I.
Earls 10 row Oil Cooler
Acewell 2802 Series Speedo/Tach
Innovate LC1 Wideband 02 AFR meter

Phoenix, Az
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17 Jul 2009 07:25 #307554 by 650ed
Replied by 650ed on topic Strange Vacuum Reading
You won't get the job done with a singe gauge, but the jumping you describe may be because the gauge has no damper. When you get a set of 4 gauges, make sure they include dampers or you will see 4 needles bouncing all over the place. Ed

1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)

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17 Jul 2009 07:52 #307559 by bigkaw815
Replied by bigkaw815 on topic Strange Vacuum Reading
Sooo, lemme get this striaight: buy a correct set of gauges? :D OK, I hear ya. I appreciate the responses. One more quick question: Since some of my valve clearances are incredibly tight, how do I get the appropriately sized shims? 3 sizes down then remeasure, reorder shims?

P.S. I promise to buy a 4 gauge vacuum meter. It was not all waste though, I can use the Harbor Freight Special on my 67 T-Bird :)

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17 Jul 2009 07:54 #307560 by bigkaw815
Replied by bigkaw815 on topic Strange Vacuum Reading
OMBG! Edit is back!!!!!!! Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU :D

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17 Jul 2009 07:56 #307562 by Old Man Rock
Replied by Old Man Rock on topic Strange Vacuum Reading
"how do I get the appropriately sized shims? "

I don't have the 650 Manual so maybe yours does...

In the manuals you should find something similar to what's in my KZ900 shop manual...

Basically you measure where your at now, find it in the column and scroll down to what size is recommended to get you within specs....

1976 KZ900-A4
MTC 1075cc.
Camshafts: Kawi GPZ-1100 .375 lift
Head: P&P via Larry Cavanaugh
ZX636 suspension
MIKUNI, RS-34'S...
Kerker 4-1, 1.5" comp baffle.
Dyna-S E.I.
Earls 10 row Oil Cooler
Acewell 2802 Series Speedo/Tach
Innovate LC1 Wideband 02 AFR meter

Phoenix, Az
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17 Jul 2009 09:31 #307579 by bigkaw815
Replied by bigkaw815 on topic Strange Vacuum Reading
I appreciate the response, but the problem is that my shims have no clearance to measure! That said, tables and charts will not help me. I wonder if I can take out the shims, install the buckets and cams, then measure the distance subtracting proper cam clearance?

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17 Jul 2009 10:08 - 17 Jul 2009 10:15 #307584 by OKC_Kent
Replied by OKC_Kent on topic Strange Vacuum Reading
So none of your valves have any clearance, you can not get the smallest feeler blade in there?

When everything is installed and properly timed for clearance checking, can you at least rotate the bucket? If you can rotate it but not get a feeler in there, then consider it to be zero clearance. If the bucket won't rotate then you have to buy the 2.00 mm shim and install it. Check the clearance again, etc.

Proceed to check all the valves, then pull the shims out and use a mike or vernier caliper to measure the thickness (convert to millimeter); then apply the shim size and valve clearance to get proper shim from the chart.

Some shims may be marked with the thickness but trust me not all marks are correct. I have shims that are one size off from the mark so MEASURE them.

You may find that you can swap some shims between valves. If you're lucky a Kaw service tech may swap shims with you and it won't cost anything.

Oklahoma City, OK
78 KZ650 B2 82,000+ miles
Last edit: 17 Jul 2009 10:15 by OKC_Kent.

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17 Jul 2009 10:20 - 17 Jul 2009 10:32 #307585 by Johnj
Replied by Johnj on topic Strange Vacuum Reading
Why don't you pull all your shims and check their sizes. It should be marked on the shim. So if you had a 2.85 that gave no clearance you want a smaller shim like a 2.80 or a 2.75. once you have some clearance you can measure and do the math to find the correct size that you need.

I highly recommend you get a set of metric feeler gauges. That way you're not converting inches into mm all the time.

I have found engines with the correct shims but in the wrong buckets before.

Veho vivo - Ago ut veho
Last edit: 17 Jul 2009 10:32 by Johnj.

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