Another EFI conversion question

Does any member have any experience in swapping CPU (ECU) between early (1981/2) and late model (1983/4) 1100 GPz models? Specifically, is there any hypothetical reason that the EFI systems from a 1983 GPz1100 wouldn't work on a 1982 GPz1100? It is the same fundamental motor and if the CPU + harness and all the other gizmos could retrofit the earlier model...would the FI function?

The 81-82 models use an airflow meter while the 83-84 use Alpha N, in other words, totally different sytems and the computers will not interchange (as a practical matter anyway). 81 system has the injectors mounted in the head while 82-84 have the injectors mounted in the thottle bodies. I would not even consider using an original stock computer, those things are 20+ years old now and have suffered the ravages of time and vibration, better stuff is available in the aftermarket for reasonable prices (MegaSqirt kit is ~$140).

To add fuel injection to 650/750/1000/1100 motors I suggest using the 83-84 GPz1100 throttle bodies, sensors and wiring harness, and an aftermarket EFI controller. Other throttle bodies can be used (GSXR are popular and there are about a million of them around), but they require some mods to adjust the spacing to fit.

Yeah unfortunately 83 is the year they swapped over from analog (mass air flow) to digital EFI so you can't swap the ECUs.

In my experience the stock ECUs are extremely reliable. What kills them is the rubber mounting blocks failing, and then vibration gets to the unit. Look after the blocks though and the ECU will be ok. If cracked the blocks can be repaired reasonably well with plumber's self-amalgamating tape.

I wouldn't swap to an aftermarket system unless I was looking for a BIG performance increase. The dyno time to map alone is going to cost more than the actual unit and the ancillaries soon add up. A replacement ECU of the same year would be best, second best would probably be...dare I mention them....carbs! :sick:

With a laptop computer strapped on the back of the seat (for datalogging) or even a cheap Palm PDA, a "seat of the pants" dyno is pretty cheap and quite useful

I'll grant that if you need evey available pony to get you in the nines then an eddy current dyno and a four gas analyzer is the ticket :evil: :evil:

But I'll settle for 90% of the available ponies and half the expense

That's not the first time I have heard the 81-82 system called "Analog", but I still insist that it is incorrect, both system are digital it's just that the 81-82 has an airflow sensor to provide additional info to the cpu. After three years of that (starting with the 80 KZ1000G) Kawasaki finally figured out that they could do away with the airflow sensor by using Alpha N instead of Mass Air Flow, and save a few bucks on each bike. Later on they added a MAP sensor and started using a combination of Speed Density and Alpha N by switching back and forth between the two modes depending on operating conditions.

Post edited by: steell, at: 2006/03/08 04:45

steell wrote:

To add fuel injection to 650/750/1000/1100 motors I suggest using the 83-84 GPz1100 throttle bodies, sensors and wiring harness, and an aftermarket EFI controller. Other throttle bodies can be used (GSXR are popular and there are about a million of them around), but they require some mods to adjust the spacing to fit.

So, it is possible to retrofit 83/84 ECU, harness, sensors to a '82 GPz1100.

Sure, it's possible to retrofit the entire system off a 83-84 GPz1100 to a 82. I'm sure there will be a couple of minor mods needed, like mounting the airbox or something, but nothing major.

You might even be able to just use the 83-84 computer and wiring harness on your 82, thus keeping everything but the airflow meter (and airbox). I looked this up at buykawasaki.com earlier, and I think most of the stuff was the same.

Are you sure about MAF sensor on the 82? IIRC the 82 only has RPM, TPS, and CHT sensors.

-Duck

Well, the '82 has an MAF, so there has to be a sensor?

82 part number list

21176 21176-1002 SENSOR-TEMPERATURE
21176A 21176-1003 SENSOR,AIR-TEMPERATUR
27002 27002-1007 RELAY ASSY
27004 27004-1009 SWITCH-ASSY,THROTTLE
28011 28011-1010 METER,AIR FLOW
41077 41077-1004 ADAPTER,SENSOR
49033 49033-1001 INJECTOR,FUEL

83 Part number list

21176 21176-1002 SENSOR-TEMPERATURE
21176A 21176-1003 SENSOR,AIR-TEMPERATUR
27002 27002-1007 RELAY ASSY
41077 41077-1004 ADAPTER,SENSOR
49033 49033-1001 INJECTOR,FUEL

And the 82 parts diagram, # 28011 is "Meter, Air Flow"



Post edited by: steell, at: 2006/03/08 11:40

I believe the parts diagram is incorrect.
From the FSM...

For KZ1100B2 I see:

TPS
Engine temp
Air temp
RPM(ignition signal)

as inputs to the DFI controller.


For KZ1100B1 I see:

Throttle valve switch
Idle switch
Engine temp sensor
Air flow meter(flapper type includes air temp sensor)

as inputs to the EFI controller.

Specifications page calls it EFI for 81 and DFI for 82.
82 does not have the funky idle switch either.

With the EFI the MAF-TPS differential provides engine load data to determine fuel requirments.
With the DFI the TPS-RPM differential is used.

-Bob

Post edited by: Duck, at: 2006/03/08 15:19

Mcdroid wrote:

Well, the '82 has an MAF, so there has to be a sensor?

So now we have one 82 KZ1100B2 with a MAF (Air Flow Sensor), and I assume your (Duck's) 82 does not have an Air Flow Sensor? If so, them possibly it was a mid year production change? I don't have a 1100 of any year, so I don't know for sure, although I have seen times when the Parts Diagrams were wrong and also times when the FSM was wrong, so flip a coin and pick one
And DFI/EFI are just marketing terms used by Kawasaki, not accurate descriptions of the operation.
It would be accurate to idintify them as Mass Air Flow and Alpha N systems since that is the generic terminolgy commonly used.

Post edited by: steell, at: 2006/03/08 15:42

steel-

The FSM splits models by frame number.
For USA and Canada models:
B1 begins with jkakzbb1*ba000001;
B2 begins with jkakzbb1*ca010401.
The frame number here is "*ca015783 and there is no 'flapper' box.

I'm with you on the importance of considering the printed material in the context of common sense. I got bit last weekend because I assumed the assembly diagram for the rear wheel and bearings showed the spacer going in from the side it was supposed to go in from. NOT SO! It wouldn't fit. Had to gently extract a newly installed bearing to get it in

-Duck