Cam timing question

So i re-shimmed my valves last week, and im getting very close to attempting to fire my motor up. Unfortunatly there is one nagging question i have. When i was turning the motor to 1 and 4 TDC to remove the cams, i noticed the markings on my bike were different from those in the clymer manuel.

THe manuel shows a simple T as the only mark to be found, on my motor there was a series of marks that looked like this:

T l F l (with the l repersenting a simple vertical line) . SO my question is, should the pointer have been directly over the T (thats where i put it) OR should it have lined up with the vertical line slightly to the right of the T.

The number of pins on the cam chain came out correct, however the mark on the intake cam was pointing slightly above the head (maybe 1/2 link from flush with the head). I have truned the motor over with the 17mm nut and kick start a bunch of times nothing binds, grinds, or pounds... So what do you all think??

T l F l (with the l repersenting a simple vertical line) . SO my question is, should the pointer have been directly over the T (thats where i put it) OR should it have lined up with the vertical line slightly to the right of the T.


top is the vertical line to the right of "T", fire is the line right of "F"

IIRC in the 'J' FSM it's over the vertical line on the 1 4 TDC look at the photo in the Clymer, you may see it there.

How does the tooth count look on the intake compared to the manual. Suspect you're gonna be between links on one cam and in the middle of a link on the other to get the count right. It really doesn't matter which end is which. Again, this is how it works out on the 'J'. It depends on whether or not the chain is shifted a tooth on the crank sprocket...

-Duck

well thats a bummer, looks like i will be taking it all apart again...sigh.

The only visuals my manuel had showed just a T, with the pointer centered over it (so thats what i did...crap).

Well i guess its better i ask and find out now than wait and wonder why my motor wont run right.

Duck wrote:

How does the tooth count look on the intake compared to the manual. Suspect you're gonna be between links on one cam and in the middle of a link on the other to get the count right. It really doesn't matter which end is which. Again, this is how it works out on the 'J'. It depends on whether or not the chain is shifted a tooth on the crank sprocket...

-Duck

I dont quite get what your asking? My tooth count came out right (36 between cam marks) however the intake mark was pointed maybe 1 pin (or 1/2 chain length) above the top of the head. The manuel says it should be flush (the exaust mark was flush).

Sorry, I mis-understood.

Thought you said the ex arrow was pointing at different part of chain link than shown in the manual.

If you're not a tooth short on count then your chain is short on top. They don't shrink so I'm at a loss.

-Duck

You have T | F | marks on your mechanical advance. Turn the crank using the 17mm nut to where the mark on your engine case aligns with the FIRST | (that is the T mark and not the T itself). You should look like this:

...|... (mark on case)
T | F | (markings on mechanical advance)

This means you are at TDC. If you stick your pinky or a pencil into the #4 plug hole, you will feel the piston crown. If you want to check, keep the pinky or pencil in there and turn the crank (using the 17mm nut) back and forth a bit and you will not that you are AT THE TOP when these marks align here. The reason is that your crankshaft has a locating pin on the end that fits into a slot on the mechanical advance.

Anyway, once at TDC, align the arrow on your exhaust cam with the gasket mating surface. Counting at the first link ABOVE this alignment, count the number of link pins specified and set your intake cam to where the # of pins and the arrow coincide with the number of links counted. I suggest you use a marking pen and mark each 10th link or something and recount the links a couple times as it is pretty easy to mess up the counting.

ok before i go tearing the cams back out, i set the crank to the correct TDC so why dont you all have a look and tell me what you think!

Post edited by: hardr0ck68, at: 2006/02/08 14:45

and here is the Intake for you...

The intake actually points a hair under the head, and the exaust is a hair above; but im not sure if they are off a fill pin or not.


By the way, Thanks for all the help, this rebuild would have never happened if it wasent for you all! (and Jeff at Z1).

Post edited by: hardr0ck68, at: 2006/02/08 14:52

And cause i know your love for bike pic's....here is my sad old girl (please know, i would NEVER allow something of mine to reach this condition; i may be half-assed but im not a jack ass )

I am sort of confused as to what you are trying to do. The mark on the exhaust cam is oriented when you find TDC by lining up the marks on your mechanical advance. The mark on the exhaust cam will look like: -->

You place the cam shaft under the cam chain so that the mark --> points at your gasket mating surface (towards front of bike). It helps to put the bike on centerstand or on a lift so it is straight up and down.

By doing this, you have oriented the exhaust cam properly relative to the crankshaft position.

The next thing is to sit your intake cam in place and count the appropriate number of links, starting at the first ABOVE the --> mark. I can't remember what that number is on a 650. You will then find a mark on the exhaust cam sprocket that is NOT a straight line like you pictured but it will say:

_^
_|
28T

Or it will be SOME number but not 28... The thing above the 28 is an arrow as best I can make one... I put the underscores next to the arrow just to hold their place. Anyway, THIS is the marking on the intake cam you set UNDER the number of the pin that is specified in your manual.

I supsect those horizontal lines on your cam sprockets are the lines used to set the cams up for making valve clearance measurements.

The photos are of my cams at TDC in the correct position (thats why i asked earlier in this thread).

The manuel says that the arrows (that i pictured) should be level with the surface of the head; im basically asking are these arrows close enough to level?
One cam is pointed a hair above the lip of the head, and the other a hair below. Im wondering if this is alright??

The arrows are the correct distance appart (36 pins counting the first pin as zero as the manuel says)