Head gaskets

madderkaw wrote:

Do you mean the original is SOLID metal?

It looks like it's made af aluminum. It looks like 2 pieces pressed together with something in between, but I'm not going to pull it apart. It looks very clean and not damaged at all. It also looks to be 1000% better than the replacement that's brand new, but made of paper (maybe felt of some type) with the metal inserts.

I wonder if it is tin plated copper sheets which is what the new ones I have been seeing are made of. In between the metal sheets should be some kind of compressible material.

Even if the compressible materail has some spring left, I think you will find the hard metal rings at the cylinder rims and oil passages are fully smashed.

Post edited by: bountyhunter, at: 2008/02/20 19:31

madderkaw wrote:

Well, that's not very encouraging. I guess I'll just use the new one.

While on the subject of head gaskets, the original is metal while the replacement is paper with metal inserts.

Hmmm. You might want to check ebay for an OEM gasket. The paper kind with metal rings sounds like an aftermarket cheapo. The OEM's are usually solid metal layers top and bottom.... like the old one in your engine. The paper one might work but I had an aftermarket gasket fail in my rebuild and I ended up having to do the whole job over so I am still paranoid.

bountyhunter wrote:
. . . I had an aftermarket gasket fail in my rebuild and I ended up having to do the whole job over so I am still paranoid.[/quote]

Well put. There's a torque spec. and a bolt torque order for a reason: to bring the head onto the deck evenly, and to compress the combustion chamber gaskets evenly. Once a head gasket has been used the specific resistance the engineers have allowed for in the head torque is gone. It makes little sense to invite having to do the job over again.

Opinions vary on wet/dry gaskets. For head gaskets, though, you risk the integrity of the job by adding anything to the mating surfaces. Foreign matter reacts to heat and combustion gases, as well as oil; they allow for the passage of oil where it shouldn't be; they allow head gaskets to move, which, I think you can imagine, is not a good idea.

Advice above has been good: proper surface preparation is the biggest factor: flat deck, flat head (within the allowed tolerances); clean, dust and oil free.

After over fifty years of turning wrenches for a living I think I can contribute here. Copper spray works great for exhaust surfaces, where it can add to the seal of a dynamically fitted part (that is, there's a good bit of dissimilar swelling and shrinking of the exhaust surfaces). In a pinch, a trick I learned on one job (assembling race engines) is that hi-temp RTV can be used for a head gasket . . . where the engine is used for one race and then torn down. That trick was to lower the head and raise compression. Also, ARP fasteners were used (high quality studs in the deck, as opposed to bolts through the head). For a bike, where disassembly is less "user friendly" and puts the rider out of the fun, I don't recommend it.

Machine work (milling the head) should be for a reason. By all means, go to a machine shop - with both the block and the head. Have them checked for true. Make your decision after they've put straight edges over the surfaces.

Bountyhunter said it already: check out OEM head gaskets, or high quality gaskets from one of the Forum's performance sponsors. Fast ain't good, and good ain't cheap.

It's a Vesrah top end kit that I ordered from Z1. The fit is a little off, but I can trim it where it's tight (around the cam chain tensioner sprocket axle).

For 2bskor who asked the original question:

Put the head gaskets on dry. The fitment on the ends around the studs may not be perfect where the open cut outs (metal) go around the studs so you may have to do a bit of trimming so the gaskets don't bow but put them on dry.

I do use NAPA gasket sealer (paint-on type) on the base gasket but NEVER on the head gaskets.

Folks, this thread is kind of confusing because of all the different folks asking different questions and making comments regarding stuff other than 2bskor's query. Why not start a separate thread?

madderkaw wrote:

It's a Vesrah top end kit that I ordered from Z1. The fit is a little off, but I can trim it where it's tight (around the cam chain tensioner sprocket axle).

I haven't used Vesrah. It was an Athena top end gasket set that I had bought which had a couple of bad gaskets. maybe Vesrah is better.

I have used Vesrah clutch, and valve cover gaskets on my 650 and 900 before without any problems or fit issues. I figure if Z1 sells them them they must be OK.