Long (sorry) big problem '77 1000

Bike history: I got this bike from my X-father-in-law (XFIL) When I was in high school. It came to me in boxes and my uncle and I rebuilt it for my senior project. It came in boxes because while riding it, my idiot XFIL, who probably never reset the cam chain tensioner, just barely escaped wrecking it when (speculation and second hand info) the cam chain jumped teeth, the rear tire locked up, and the cam chain blew up. It was a long time ago, so my memory of the rebuild/reassembly is limited. What I do know is that we added a Wiesco 1045 kit, new cam chain and all new idler rollers and such, rebuilt the head, replaced some wear parts like the clutch friction plates, and added a Dyna III ignition. It ran decent and strong for the week between the end of high school and my departure to the Army. It was then moth balled and unfortunately tamper with by my unskilled XFIL while I was away because it wasn't running right. Now many years later with less that a hundred miles on the rebuild, I have spent the last 3 years trying to figure out what the hell is wrong with it. Since then, I found the cams each a tooth off (XFIL) and returned them to their proper positions. I have added Dyna coils and done the coil re powering mod. I have WG's bs34 conversion (which made a big difference). A compression test showed every cylinder was between 170 and 180. However, there was still the nasty grinding sound coming from under the clutch housing/oil pan area and though it runs and sounds pretty good, when riding there is definitely still something very wrong performance wise. Well a friend and I finally said the hell with it and did a complete tear down to find answers to our questions and to look for something wrong. Unfortunately, he have found nothing that looks even remotely wrong. None of the bearings feel sloppy, no gear teeth look bad, no wear marks in the jugs... I am at a total loss. SOMETHING is wrong but with nothing obvious slapping me in the face I am just very frustrated and fear that upon reassembly, the problem is waiting and I have to waist a whole gasket set for nothing. If anyone has any ideas, I am begging. I can measure or take pictures of anything. I just really want the bike to run or I am afraid it will just have to be parted out as I have sank thousands into this thing and won't spend more until I know what the problem is.

Let's say the cam chain adjuster is working properly and has been properly adjusted. And that the clutch push rod has been properly adjusted, and clutch is performing okay. And that the drive chain is in good shape, well lubed and not kinking.

There will undoubtedly be some far better and more helpful suggestions, but here's one from left field anyway -- maybe xfil set the ignition timing by using the T mark instead of the F mark.

Don't dispair.

kzmason, What makes you think there is something wrong other than hearing noises? There isn't much to go on. You are basically saying, "I have a problem, what could it be..." No info to come up with logical guesses...

What is performance like? You ever ridden another KZ1000 to compare? Gas mileage? Clutch operation stiff? Loose? Last, just to make sure I understand... what do you mean by "clutch housing"? Are you talking about the cover over your basket or the countershaft sprocket? Did the kick starter work OK? If that thing isn't set right when you install the kicker, it will make a racket.

Oh yeah, I forget where you live... put your location in your sig. There may be someone near who has some skills...

WG, I mean the right side housing for the clutch plates. That is good that you suspect the kicker. I couldn't find anything wrong with it from a visual inspection, but we have decided to remove and block it off. What do you mean by 'set right'? The kicker did turn the engine over fine.

My problem is that I have checked out the ignition system and it seems to be operating okay, the cams are set to the correct positions, it has good compression, the valve clearances are where they should be, and you (WG) did the carbs. I just don't know what else could be wrong. I have ridden other large 4's from era. My guess would be that it is running at about 60% its stock performance.

Not sure about KZ's but on Kaw triples the rivits on the clutch basket get loose and they make a gawdawful racket at idle which quiets substantially when you pull in the clutch.Grab the drive gear and clutch basket and twist back and forth.If they are loose replace the basket assembly.My H2 was horrendous sitting at a redlight and the clutch on an H2 is so stiff you don't want to sit holding it in.

kzmason wrote:

...have checked out the ignition system and it seems to be operating okay...My guess would be that it is running at about 60% its stock performance.

Probably already done, but wanting to assure the advancer unit is not frozen in the idle position, that the advancer is lubed, and that viewing it with a strobe-type timing light shows it working properly.

Post edited by: Patton, at: 2007/12/01 21:47

I checked out the clutch housing/rivets. By hand, I can just barely feel any play. Is this movements what the little springs are for that are mounted in the back of the housing?

for the performance question, what octane gas are you running in it? my bike makes 180 psi compression and it detonates on 91.

kzmason wrote:

. . . running at about 60% its stock performance.

?? Clogged silencer ??

there should be NO play in the 3 rivets at the back of the cluch basket and the 5 springs should be tight but are likely loose. look carfully for signes of the basket springs (not the clutch plate springs)rubbing on the engine case behind the clutch basket.
a very lean carb will run good but not strong on power. how do your plugs look at mid range and full throttle??

kzmason wrote:

... cams are set to the correct positions ... running at about 60% its stock performance.

Thinking clutch rattle isn't causing 40% loss of performance.

Cams may well be already perfect, but if interested in double-checking cam timing procedure, here is a good thread:

cam timing

Best wishes for a successful resolution.

the rattle is most likelly your clutch basket and for performance issues,
what did you do to the head?
did you ever have it milled?
if so, did you degree the cams afterwards?

being one tooth off scares me.
if it wasn't for good compression readings, i would also be thinking bent valves .

what cams are you running?