Not a Kz Q but engines in general

Hey i'm designing a dry sump oiling system for my schools fsae team and i have one thing i'm not sure of. I'm sure a little more research would reveal the answer but i thought i would post it here anyway since there is such a great community of knowledge. I am questioning the idea of hooking the pressure pump directy to the resovoir rather than letting it pick up from the shallow pan. The reason i thought of this was to reduce the amount of baffleing needed between the pressure pick up and the scanvage pickup. Most kits i've seen do not do this and i am wondering is there a major reason why? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks

Coul you explain what a "fsae" is first???????

1045

I've never studied a dry sump system, but I would think since a pump can "push" better than "pull" would be a good reason to put it in the sump. Is it feesable to have a low pressure pump to take the oil from the sump to the resevoir then a high pressure pump to pump from the resevoir to the engine?

Remember, I've not studied this, so it's just how my mind works.

we run dry sumps on the sprint cars, what are you putting it on?
this would help in sorting out the tank and lines

Fsae is formula sae and is a university built race car being powered by a 06 cbr600rr motor. my plan is to use the original oil pump for the pressure pump(as all kits do) and use a dual scanvenging pump driven in the water pumps location thus using an electric water pump. tank and lines are not a problem. its the idea of hooking the feed from the tank directly to the stock pump through the pan i'm questioning rather then dumping it in the pan for the pump to pick up.

Post edited by: Frank, at: 2007/08/30 07:05

wow thats a new one one me, all the dry sump systems we use are made by Barnes, and they are a multi stage pump system, I havent looked at the system you are talking about, where do you find info on it?

I'm not familiar with the CBR600 motor, but I'm thinking that you could modify the oil pan to isolate the stock oil pump from the "return oil supply" (like with a sleeve from the pan to the oil pump, or possibly a tube going from the outside of the motor directly to the oil pump). I would think that the return oil pump should be as low as possible to help with the evacuation of the oil.
The return oil pump should be slightly bigger than the stock oil pump to keep the oil in the engine to a minimum. With the added engine oil lines, it would be easy to add an oil cooler while your at it.
Fish

you might be over thinking this.

modify the engine oil pan to have a false/sub level or lower level bottom and use a remote pump to empty the engine oil from the engine to the top of the reserve oil tank.
isolate and direct the stock engine oil pump pick up tube directly to the bottom of the remote/ reserve tank and use windage trays or gates to keep pick-up tubes submerged for all side gravity situations.

cavitation will be a problem on scavenge unless you get the flow rates equalized or gate it's pick up too

in reality the wet sump system (stock pump) will work fine with just a sub bottom modified oil pan and a longer pick up tube.
in conjunction extra drainage holes drilled inside the engine to speed the oil drainage

BUT !!

that engine does rely on internal splash to cool the piston skirts F.Y.I.

Good thought ,
BUT ,
I don't think it will work .
The clutch runs in oil
and the gearbox and the bottom of the liners work on splash.
If you have a spare engine you don't mind wasting , I would love to see if you can make it work.

No kidding , you got me thinking .

sorry for not replying earlier but i was moving and didn't have internet.

Oh it will work, people wouldn't sell kits if it didn't lol the clutch will still get oil they do not need to be submerged to work. Also i understand the pump setup and situation of keeping the second pump larger thus creating a vaccum which makes sure all unused oil is removed imediately(dry sump). I guess my question is about hooking the pressure pump directly to the oil resivoir via a tube and fitting welded in the pan. rather than letting the oil dump into the pan and be sucked up by the pressure pump which would require baffleing bettween the supply and extraction pickups.

Thanks for all the replys

Those engines get worked pretty hard in 600 supersport racing in the AMA, and lots of that is at pretty crazy angles, and accel-decel conditions. Don't see many oil related failures, and thats at 16-17 grand these days.

But again, if you wanted to, we once made a remote fill pan for a dragbike we had years ago. We made an aluminum spacer with a tube welded into it to fit on the pump in place of the screem, and sealed it against the pan floor with an o-ring. In our case, we then connected anothe flexible tube under the engine to a bung welded in the deep part of the pan. We were forced to do this due to the gate we put in the pan to trap oil in the sump. Worked great, no leaks.